Icy Grip's page

Soooo I should revise my expectations of this game. While I did not expect this game to be pathfinder in space, I didn’t expect combat be such a large hill to roll a boulder up. It’s starting to sound like this game isn’t for me then.I appreciate the time you all took to explain it to me. Having built and played many classes in Pathfinder, I never felt the frustation with combat that I do repeatedly in this one. I certainly felt it with the Technomancer at 1st level and I continue to feel it through 3 levels of envoy with my 2nd character. I could say more but that would not be constructive.Thank you all again.

Draco makes another good point. Though I was staying on the side of 'the op seems to dislike that every character doesn't fight well, so let's so how we can get there.'

I was more thinking I can’t kill a CR 1 monster in a round or two, when I have no recourse such as the fight I was describing. Envoy abilities are great if you face 1 or 2 opponents who are not too much greater than the party. On average as it stands I must score 4 hits kill an 18 hp monster. I am just thankful my GM forgot about AOO’s and decid d not to full attack me since he could still hit me on 7’s after a few failed poison saves. There wasn’t a party member who didn’t have their hands full for at least 3 of our 6 round combat.

I am a damaya lashunta envoy/3 (phrenic adept]. Str 10 Dex 14 Con 10 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 18 , feats: skill synergy, extended telepathy, equipment: lashunta tempweave armor, static arc pistol, flame pistol, azmuth laser pistol, 2frag grenades, class abilities: expertise (diplomacy, sense motive, intimidate), expertise talent (extra expertise), inspiring boost. My theme is spacefarer.

Icy,

There are so many factors at play here that it's hard for me to accept that it's the system's fault. There's table variance, there's die rolls, there's role play, etc., but, for example, when you say you're getting cornered or swarmed by 13 enemies, I'm wondering about your teammates' ability to protect your character and I'm wondering about your GM's ability to properly run encounters. Why are teammates leaving you in situations where you're alone, and why is the GM throwing 13 enemies at you? That's a couple red flags right there.

Regarding your build, Envoy is a support class, and maybe going with your chosen archetype wasn't the best choice for combat. You'll never shine like a Soldier, Solarion, or Operative at combat. Never. Like playing a Bard in Pathfinder, an Envoy's contribution during combat can be difficult to see at first, but, for example, if you buff an ally and they only hit an enemy due to your buff, then all the damage they cause is YOUR damage, and if that damage leads to a kill, that's YOUR kill. Improvisations are so great, I would never trade them out. Additionally, Envoys can replenish Stamina, which is huge, especially in Starfinder Society.

I suggest talking with your GM and sharing your concerns. If you were at my table I would let you rebuild your current character or try a new one altogether. If you stick with Envoy, accept the fact that you will not be a combat master, and perhaps give the buffing/support build a try. Your teammates will love it. Also, tell your GM that The Guoat Lord says that 13 flying monkeys is too many, bub.

I've been running Starfinder as a GM weekly since release, and I've played in several society games. In my experience, Envoys have been a great boon for parties. I wish your experience was the same, and I wish you could grab a seat at my table and join us in having fun with this great system.

Well I was only cornered by two monkeys but 2 is enough and while I certainly don’t think I should be as good at combat as the soldier I feel like I should able to defeat a single CR1 monster on my own without needing to hit it an average of 5 times. It has half my HP+ stamina, but over twice my to hit and it does nearly double my damage on average. Honestly I would prefer to play a bard, as I feel its a stronger class. No class in this game should ever be relegated to merely support as too much of this game like its predecessor relies on combat. As a bard I never thought to myslef I can’t kill my enemies even at low levels. Your points hwever are well taken. I will certainly discuss my concerns. Most of my fellowplayers do not see the problems, but they play sodiers and an operative and the other two don’t seemingly care about the glaring issues.

I actually do pack grenades, but using them wasn't really an option in this scenario since the bad guys came from above and were on us in melee or near melee pretty quickly. However I did get a one shot off with my flame pistol and injured 3 of those pesky monkeys.

That being said I have used psychokinetic hand with a grenade once to amusing effect. I just looking for options to survive and kill something once its on me with what I have, but there are many trap options in Starfinder as I have discovered. I have gimped myself very nicely. I have 4 pistols including an static arc pistol and above mentioned flame pistol.

I barely lived through the mentioned encounter having rapidly gone through my hit stamina and majority of my hit points in addition to failing 4 of my DEX poison saves. Ironically the most damage I took was from our party mystic/medic who in an attempt to heal my poison issue did 9 HP to me to hit me with a needle pistols. I couldn't exactly argue being nearly paralyzed there.

So what I am hearing is, if you expect to do something in combat to save yourself once in awhile, you need to take the feats or multi-class or to put it more succinctly build a more optimized character. I only took Envoy because other than Operative & Technomancer none of classes have much in the way of appeal to me. I generally prefer my PC's to do more than I shoot or stab it.

I did go technomancer, but I encountered even more issues with that because quite frankly I didn't optimize that enough either. My party members literally all had better skills then me and spells at low level do carry water in combat for more than 1 to3 rounds. All of our combats last around 5-6 rounds generally which is too much for a low AC, low DPR character.

So it seems to me, the system actively encourage high levels of optimization to stay alive and be functional in any capacity. Again thanks for the advice.

So basically small arms are useless and I must bite the bullet and take longarms or sniper weapons. While I can accept that options 1 and 2 are good options when I have people to support or are supporting me. When I am pinned in a corner or alone, I am screwed. Option 3 is very similar to my original problem and option 4 is out of the question at least for the current time as I have a Strength of 10 so my +2 to hit is not going to cut the mustard. :)

In other words I have to suck it up and take the 2 feats and like it. That is really bad game design. Normally I see much better from Paizo. Now I am wondering why I wasted my money on this system. Thanks for earnest attempt with the advice. It is appreciated.

So I've been playing the Dead Suns AP and we are a good ways into Chapter 2, and I found myself wondering how on earth I as an envoy/3 am expected to contribute meaningfully in fights.

I made a lashunta envoy/3 (phrenic adept) with skill synergy and extended telepathy because I thought it would be cool. I rapidly discovered an inability to do meaningful damage in combat, but I thought that's OK, envoy's have a more supporting role in fights, but I don't see my ability to grant Stamina as very effective when I get hit 6 to 9 times in a single fight and other PC's barely feel it. I guess I chose poorly. Whatever right. Well even on my non-combat skills the operative does them all better thanks his nice +2 bonus to skills and high stats. Again I guess I failed to optimize properly.

OK all that aside, what happens when an enovoy must fight alone, what do they do? While I wasn't exacly alone in our groups last fight, we were attacked by 13 of those flying scorpion monkey things. We have 6 characters (2 soldiers (1 melee and 1 ranged), 1 mystic (xenodruid), 1 envoy (me), 1 mechanic (stealth drone), and 1 operative (a detective)). I barely survived their poison as I failed 4 saves in a row, but at 1 point I was up against 2 of them. I thought to myself how am I supposed to kill them (even one of them) with a level 2 pistol? 2 of them has almost as many HP/stamina as me and they sure hit more often with their +9 to hit against my 16 (lowered to 12 thanks to several failed poison saves). What am I doing wrong?

The answer should not be take longarms and versatile specialization. If that is the case, then the game is a failure as a system as the game involves combat heavily and all classes must able to excel with what they are given to fight effectively in combat. If that is requirement for doing meaningful damage that is a huge oversight. I certainly don't feel like any of my abilities would have let my party members kill the 13 monkeys any faster and while we didn't get them all at once we certainly were not killing more than 1 or 2 of them in a round.

Actually the polymorph rules from earlier in this thread don't state you lose anything.So that leads to weird things like the Dragon polymorphed into a human that still has a bite attack and is even stronger while doing so while still having his tough skin. IS that what's intended or am I seriously misreading the rules?