THIS IS A PFS CHARACTER CONCEPT fyi.
The craze that swept the stealth action hero scene by storm years ago, cold cockin people who aren't looking! Really wanting to make a nonlethal focused unarmed fighting sneak attacker, but i need a way to throw one hard hitting swing, that way I can stealth up/feint and pop them, and hopefully be able to put at least run of the mill folk enemies down in one pop. Not sure really how to go about this too well though. Thinking mostly Unchained Rogue since Dex to damage on my fists without magic items is a dream come true, and while I will likely be grabbing major magic to for vanish, the invisibility shenanigans that are to my knowledge the ninjas selling point are a tad cheesy for me, and is a tad too magical for how I'm digging this guy being but am open to the idea should soumeone think they have something.
Only ideas i have were unchained rogue with either a dip in snakebite brawler for obvious reasons, or Unarmed fighter archetype to snag dragon style, allowing my first unarmed attack to add 1.5 dex once i get the second finesse training, and unarmed strike for free.
I suppose Dragon Style + Vital Strike could do it.
Will he be rocking a cute little sailor style schoolgirl outfit and pigtails?
Easy
Take the Feat "Betrayer"
With a successful Diplomacy check, you can attack someone as an immediate action.
If you get them to friendly or better, they are caught flat footed.
You then capitalize off this by taking some class that has the sneak attack feature.
To max the cheese factor, maybe add in Improved Feint so you can do the old "What's that?" and then knock them out (getting sneak attack damage) when they look where you're pointing.
Druid with Merciful Amulet of Mighty Fists wildshaping into a Behemoth Hippopotamus with Vital Strike and Strong Jaw...~16d8+1d6+X nonlethal
I know I forgot the sneak attack, but you can always get a domain that grants Invisbility
Sap Adept already been mentioned yet? Also I swear there's a feat or archetype or something somewhere that lets you make a stealth check to hide the fact you just knocked out/killed someone. Vigilante talent maybe?
I don't think Sap Adept actually works with unarmed strikes, does it?
The talent you're talking about is called "Quiet Death". It's a 3rd party Advanced Talent for rogues: Quiet Death
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IUS + Sap adept + Sap master + knockout artist + brawling armor enhancement.
Dragon Style needs 15 STR, on the long run jabbing style is probably easier, but needs 13 STR and more other feats.
I would probably go with pummeling style for this if you take a style feat at all.
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Sap Adept already been mentioned yet? Also I swear there's a feat or archetype or something somewhere that lets you make a stealth check to hide the fact you just knocked out/killed someone. Vigilante talent maybe?I don't think Sap Adept actually works with unarmed strikes, does it?
It does. An unarmed strike is a bludgeoning weapon used to deal nonleathal sneak attack damage.
Sap Adept works with Unarmed Strikes, Saps, and any weapon used with the Bludgeoner feat.
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The Sap feat chain would definitely work. I cannot suggest going straight Snakebite brawler enough for this. Take Accomplished Sneak Attacker and you can qualify for Sap Master at 7th level. This is actually a really cool concept.
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The Sap feat chain would definitely work. I cannot suggest going straight Snakebite brawler enough for this. Take Accomplished Sneak Attacker and you can qualify for Sap Master at 7th level. This is actually a really cool concept.
If he already wants to go Urogue - he could qualify for Sap Master at level 4 - though probably not actually take it until 5.
Snakebite Striker 1
Urogue 3
If you take the Scout archetype, you'd always get to use Sap Master on the charge. 7d6+6+Dex+Enhancement at level 5? Yes please.
UC rogues could actually do this with a whip too. Easier and cheaper to enchant and you have whip proficiency as a rogue.
Another option is to go UC monk and take the monk oof the mantis archetype from dirty tactics toolbox. Along with the accomplished sneak attacker feat you´ll get quite some damage this way.
Of course you could also multiclass that with 4 levels UC rogue for a finesse build and there can be quite some synergy with monk ki strikes and other tricks.
You could go sap master and whatnot, although that isn't actually punching.
I would recommend strait brawler. They literally get a knockout ability.
Unchained Monk cannot take any archetypes in PFS unfortunately.
Unchained Monk cannot take any archetypes in PFS unfortunately.They can take Monk of the Mantis and Serpentfire Adept. Both archetypes were released after unchained and can be used with unchained monks.
I stand corrected!! Thank you for that bit of info, Imbicatus.
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Bob Bob Bob mentioned Sap Feats: Sap Adept, Sap Master, Knockout Artist. Take Improved Initiative. Use a Bow with Blunt Arrows. Imbicatus mentioned the Bludgeoner Feat. Sap Master only works if your opponent is Flat Footed, and that usually means winning Initiative. Denied your Dex Bonus is not the same thing as Flatfooted.
True - but the Scout archetype's charge actually makes them count as flat-footed specifically. If denied dex worked - I'd have suggested a feint-based build.
I think that Snakebite Striker dip with URogue (Scout) would be a nice little combo. May want to look into Mobility as an option though, because to really maximize the output from Sap Master you'll want to be constantly Charging with the Scout option.
Or you could go down the Enforcer route with this to really stack on the debuffs with Debilitating Injury. You can start the combat out with a Charge, tag your target with a nice heavy thump from Sap Master/Enforcer/Debilitating Injury, and then set up a flank to continue hammering out the debuffs with DI and Enforcer.
The only hinge I see, is some GMs may say that Enforcer will not work with unarmed strike since it specifically calls out a "melee" weapon. Personally I see if working perfectly, but I have seen some folks argue over things even more vague than that.
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I didn't know that about Scout: cool!Bob Bob Bob mentioned Sap Feats: Sap Adept, Sap Master, Knockout Artist. Take Improved Initiative. Use a Bow with Blunt Arrows. Imbicatus mentioned the Bludgeoner Feat. Sap Master only works if your opponent is Flat Footed, and that usually means winning Initiative. Denied your Dex Bonus is not the same thing as Flatfooted.True - but the Scout archetype's charge actually makes them count as flat-footed specifically. If denied dex worked - I'd have suggested a feint-based build.
Well - in hindsight I may have overstated. It DOES work with Sap Master. However - they actually DON'T lose their dex to AC.
At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
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The only hinge I see, is some GMs may say that Enforcer will not work with unarmed strike since it specifically calls out a "melee" weapon. Personally I see if working perfectly, but I have seen some folks argue over things even more vague than that.
How could a unarmed strike possibly not be a melee weapon? If they claimed such nonsense I would show them the weapon tables in the crb that clearly show unarmed strikes. In addition to that is the rule under monk and brawler unarmed strikes that clearly states they are treated as a manufactured weapon for the purposes of effects that enhance them.
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I didn't know that about Scout: cool!Bob Bob Bob mentioned Sap Feats: Sap Adept, Sap Master, Knockout Artist. Take Improved Initiative. Use a Bow with Blunt Arrows. Imbicatus mentioned the Bludgeoner Feat. Sap Master only works if your opponent is Flat Footed, and that usually means winning Initiative. Denied your Dex Bonus is not the same thing as Flatfooted.True - but the Scout archetype's charge actually makes them count as flat-footed specifically. If denied dex worked - I'd have suggested a feint-based build.Well - in hindsight I may have overstated. It DOES work with Sap Master. However - they actually DON'T lose their dex to AC.
At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
There are other ways to actually cause opponents to become flat-footed. For an unarmed sap master build, Enforcer+Shatter Defenses comes to mind.
Getting stunning fist into the mix may be an OK idea here. Take mantis style and mountain splitting strike, and your DC can be quite good. Only costs you two feats and favors a high WIS and a small size.
How could a unarmed strike possibly not be a melee weapon? If they claimed such nonsense I would show them the weapon tables in the crb that clearly show unarmed strikes. In addition to that is the rule under monk and brawler unarmed strikes that clearly states they are treated as a manufactured weapon for the purposes of effects that enhance them.
The only hinge I see, is some GMs may say that Enforcer will not work with unarmed strike since it specifically calls out a "melee" weapon. Personally I see if working perfectly, but I have seen some folks argue over things even more vague than that.
I'm with you, Imbicatus! However, I have seen far more ridiculous things argued about for pages on these forums. It was just an FYI, be prepared for it just in case.
Whips don't work, as they do slashing damage.UC rogues could actually do this with a whip too. Easier and cheaper to enchant and you have whip proficiency as a rogue.
Whips do nonlethal damage? You don´t even need the bludgeoner feat with them. Or was sap adept saying you need bludgeoning weapons?
Ascetic style line + monastic legacy is also definately worth it when fighting unarmed. YOu get the same unarmed damage as a monk at the end.
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Whips don't work, as they do slashing damage.UC rogues could actually do this with a whip too. Easier and cheaper to enchant and you have whip proficiency as a rogue.
Whips do nonlethal damage? You don´t even need the bludgeoner feat with them. Or was sap adept saying you need bludgeoning weapons?
Yes, Sap Adept/Master requires you to do nonlethal bludgeoning damage. Whips do nonlethal slashing damage, so they don't work with Sap Adept or Master.
Shatter Defenses requires Dazzling Display as a Prerequisite, but using Dazzling Display followed up by say Great Cleave and Shatter Defenses to make the whole crowd Flatfooted, then Great Cleave again the next round to score that Sneak Attack damage with your Heavy Shield and Lucerne Hammer is a pretty solid option, although not what the OP was asking for.
Shatter Defenses requires Dazzling Display as a Prerequisite, but once you have the feat it works on any shaken foe. You don't have to use Dazzling Display to make everyone frightened. If you use enforcer your first hit will make them shaken, and every subsequent hit the foe will be flat-footed.
Also I swear there's a feat or archetype or something somewhere that lets you make a stealth check to hide the fact you just knocked out/killed someone. Vigilante talent maybe?
Nonchalant Thuggery, a trait from Cheliax: Empire of Devils, gives you a +4 bonus to the bluff check for doing such a thing.
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If you use enforcer your first hit will make them shaken, and every subsequent hit the foe will be flat-footed.
Technically you'd have to hit them once, then use Enforcer, then hit them a second time to activate Shatter Defenses, and only THEN would they be flat-footed against additional attacks.
The following turn they would be flat-footed against all of your attacks. (and if you hit them every turn - for the rest of the fight because of how long Enforcer's Shaken effect lasts)