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Hello everyone, I was hoping you guys could help me out with something. A group I'm playing with is setting up a game geared toward new and inexperienced players (we're all not the most experienced). Long story short, there is a new addition to the gaming group that we've only met once before so far. I want him to play the kind of character he wants so he can have fun, but I also don't want him to step on the toes too much of others that have already gone through the process of creating their characters.
Everyone in the group has already decided/chosen their characters but we needed one more to join, so we reached out to the general community and found someone that had only played a tabletop RPG once before and he had a blast with it (which is perfect, because that's the kind of player we wanted).
So far in the group we have an Investigator, a lightning Kineticist who will be mixing Kinetic Whip with ranged blasts and hasting, a Fighter (don't think there's any archetype attached) that is focusing on AoO with a Flying Blade and Combat Maneuvers, and then the new player. So we essentially have skill monkey/support, a switch-hitter, and a reach beatstick. As you can see, we're sorely lacking any real spell-casting ability.
The new player has expressed interest in playing a kind of warrior-type. His character in the other game was apparently a Dwarf with an axe (or other such melee weapon) who threw tomahawks when needed for ranged attacks but generally waded into the middle of a fight.
I was thinking maybe a Bloodrager to add a little more arcane casting to the group but that's still very limited on the spellcasting scale. Another player came up with the idea of a Druid that shapeshifted a lot and pounced so that he can be in the fray while also having spells. Yet another idea was a Warpriest since they have decent martial ability and 6th level casting. What I really need is a brainstorm of possible classes (including archetypes if applicable) that I can go over with the new player while we're creating his character. I really want him to have as much fun as possible while also creating a bit more diversity within the group roles. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I recommend someone that has access to cure spell, just to be able to use a wand easy.
cleric, Oracle, Warpriest, Paladin, Ranger, Inquisitor, Bard, Skald, shaman, Druid.
all of them can be super successful combatants.
Personally I'd lean toward warpriest, Inquisitor, paladin, or bard.
EDIT: forgot about Infernal healing and it's wands, which lets wizardy types have a healing spell, takes longer though.
Warproest is simple and fun, almost exactly what it looks like you need.
From what I've seen, spell-casting is one of the least intuitive systems in the entire game, and is quite time consuming. Therefore, I would recommend against setting your new player up with a character that casts spells at the start of the game, although a Paladin, Ranger, or, like you suggested, Bloodrager would all work.
Now given those three, I'd either go Paladin or Bloodrager. Bloodrager would eventually get you access to some area spells at higher levels (although you don't see anything of the sort until 10th level, and then you'd have to compensate for the low DC somehow. On the other hand, the Paladin would provide you with something for your nearly non-existant healing game. Both are fairly easy to play (especially if the Paladin takes the Oath of Vengeance.) The Ranger would kind-of work, but with an investigator on the team, you've already covered skill monkey, and have provided your party with some buffing at 3rd level if you go with Infusion.
Druids are pretty powerful, but they are also so overflowing with options each day that it could really bog the game down (especially once you get to the point that you can use wild shape). And while the Kineticist might not have that issue, it's still a complicated-not-quite-magic-but-it-is-magic sort of system, and I haven't any experience with the class.
And while the Kineticist might not have that issue, it's still a complicated-not-quite-magic-but-it-is-magic sort of system, and I haven't any experience with the class.
The Kineticist is pretty tough to wrap your head around the entire class all at once, but when you start breaking down to "I am using that element" and "I am at this level" the decision tree reduces to manageable levels pretty quickly. The default mode should be "not taking burn" so you only need to consider the blasts you can manage with gather power (generally as a move action, full-round gathering is dangerous) plus your other burn reducing powers.
Making it simple is that there are very few feats and items that the class needs to consider. The fighter is going to have to pore over reams of feats, whereas the kineticist has to consider like 10-20 options before they really start scraping the bottom of the barrel for weird stuff.
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I'm the one playing the Kineticist and have done a lot of general research into the class. I've actually been in 4 different groups or so overall but each group never made it past level 3 or 4. Don't worry too much about the Kineticist being too much for me to handle. It's one of those things where I'm not able to play too much but I did a LOT of reading here on the forums when it came out to gather all of the clarifications and tidbits that aren't readily apparent. Stuff like needing to be twice the level to take a Wild Talent than the "level" listed in the entry.
Either way, I also stumbled upon the Hunter (Feral Hunter archetype) as a better class for him than the Druid. It still has some caster stuff but there isn't any finaggling with animal companions and is a bit more martial than the Druid.
From what I've seen so far, the classes being suggested can be broken down into a couple categories.
6th level casters:
Hunter, Warpriest, Inquisitor, Skald, Bard
4th level casters:
Ranger, Paladin, Bloodrager
Non-Casters:
Slayer
I would love for him to go for one of the 6th level casters but I don't necessarily know how adverse he is to magic considering his explanation of his first character. I'm a little iffy on recommending Skald and Bard though since they're Knowledge-centered which is already covered by the Investigator (in fact, half the reason why the player wanted to play the Investigator is that he thought it would be cool to be the "knowledge guy"). I like the idea of a Slayer because it has full BAB progression and the talents, but I would have to see how he feels about all the stealth and the lack of spellcasting which we're trying to bump a bit makes me hesitant, but I will certainly keep it on the list to talk to him about. Although honestly, the stealth is a good thing to have since the only person who isn't stealthy in our group so far is the Fighter and so it will promote a bit of group synergy.
Looking at the archetypes though, War Drummer takes away the Skald's knowledge stuff for some other tidbits. Are there any archetypes on the Bard side that you guys would recommend that takes away Bardic Knowledge and/or Lore Master? The two that jump out at me are Arcane Duelist and Daredevil, and it's not like Bards are required to do the whole Dex-based thing. Nothing would stop him from two-handing something and smashing face while rocking out.
I almost always suggest a new player check out the ranger.
It introduces all the little sub-sets of rules level by level:
1. Monster types and skills--lots of skills.
2. Bonus Feats
3. Terrain types, Endurance
4. Spells, animal companion and/or party buffing
Etc. etc.
The slayer is also really good. The best parts of being a rogue, ranger, and fighter.
In my experience, new players try to do lots of new and fun things, which having lots of skills really encourages.
If he doesn't want to be a spellcaster, I would suggest the slayer so he can max ranks in Acrobatics, Climb, Perception, Stealth, Survival, and dabble in Ride, Swim, and some Knowledges. Maybe Disable Device.
For a new player, I am mildly in favor of spontaneous casting over prepared casting. The whole "you have x number of casts of this level, here is what you can choose from" is a decent system imo and easier to get than the slot thing. If the player appears interested in playing a caster, let him try - I think something like the oracle is a cool way to do it. By the time he has a level or two under his belt and starts having more than 6-7 casts per day, he will have a better idea of what he is doing.
If he prefers martial types, check if someone in the party wants to "reroll" a character. It is mostly up to what he wants to play, though. Casters are a bit harder than non-casters, but it is not impossible to try one and have fun if you are a newbie.
If he wants a martial, I can get behind SmiloDan´s suggesion. However, a straight damage barbarian or bloodrager (or hey, even a paladin) can probably help too.
Hello everyone, I was hoping you guys could help me out with something. A group I'm playing with is setting up a game geared toward new and inexperienced players (we're all not the most experienced). Long story short, there is a new addition to the gaming group that we've only met once before so far. I want him to play the kind of character he wants so he can have fun, but I also don't want him to step on the toes too much of others that have already gone through the process of creating their characters.
Everyone in the group has already decided/chosen their characters but we needed one more to join, so we reached out to the general community and found someone that had only played a tabletop RPG once before and he had a blast with it (which is perfect, because that's the kind of player we wanted).
So far in the group we have an Investigator, a lightning Kineticist who will be mixing Kinetic Whip with ranged blasts and hasting, a Fighter (don't think there's any archetype attached) that is focusing on AoO with a Flying Blade and Combat Maneuvers, and then the new player. So we essentially have skill monkey/support, a switch-hitter, and a reach beatstick. As you can see, we're sorely lacking any real spell-casting ability.
The new player has expressed interest in playing a kind of warrior-type. His character in the other game was apparently a Dwarf with an axe (or other such melee weapon) who threw tomahawks when needed for ranged attacks but generally waded into the middle of a fight.
I was thinking maybe a Bloodrager to add a little more arcane casting to the group but that's still very limited on the spellcasting scale. Another player came up with the idea of a Druid that shapeshifted a lot and pounced so that he can be in the fray while also having spells. Yet another idea was a Warpriest since they have decent martial ability and 6th level casting. What I really need is a brainstorm of possible classes (including archetypes if applicable) that I can go over with the new player while we're...
I would suggest Unchained Rogue, or just rogue.
Why?
If you really want this new player to enjoy his experience and functionality in the group Rogue offers many ways to do this.
1st. Putting everything into dex will make sure that he doesn't have to worry about Landing hits, Dealing damamge, and worrying about getting better armor.
2nd. With all the skill points they get, they will feel useful out of combat. Most new players feel inadequate out of combat and find roleplaying a bit on the streaneous side. Guide them with things like what they want to do, ask them to roll, then ask them to play out their action.
For example if they want to intimidate someone, have them roll, if they get a good role and then they try to roll play in whatever fashion and succeed, then they will feel better and be more likely to step up.
3rd. Rogue will really present to the player the importance of teamwork and positioning. Since rogues do sneak attack damage, they will always try to put themselves in flanking positions or positions that are advantageous. Doing so will be a boon for them (flank bonus and Sneak attack) but also a boon for their ally (Flank bonus, and potential AOO's)
If they feel they are still lacking utility, perhaps encourage them to pick up some magical rogue talents to further expand their capabilities.
I feel spellcasting classes and the such will soon go over their heads. They will feel pressured to prepare the right spells every day, or when they level up they will be judged on what spells they pick or they will feel forced to pick spells that other people want him to take. And at the end of the day Agency is an important factor for every player. A player shouldn't feel like they are constantly being berrated for picking the wrong things.
As a real world example, in the group that I GM, we have a druid/fighter Gestalt character. She was somewhat new to the game, and always felt very pressured/confused when picking spells. I ended up making her a nifty Excel spreadsheet with some utility spells/damage spells/ traveling spells to give her a nice input on what where some good spells to pick giving whether she was in town/traveling/or dungeon crawling.
Just pointing out, Bards and Skalds aren't knowledge centered. Sure they get an ability that gives bonuses on knowledge, but they don't have a reason for high int, so their knowledge aren't as high as the investigators. Plus there are tons of archetypes that trade out bardic knowledge for stuff.