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The primary item in question:
"A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)"
I understand that this effects Animal form, but does this effect Elemental or Plant form?
as far as i know, nor plants nor elementals have the ability to speak. I could accept anyway for air elemental
I imagine it varies from plant creature to plant creature, but nearly all intelligent elementals have a language and can speak it (but rarely choose to do so in the case of true elementals).
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It's really misleading to me, because it states "Animal Form", with no reference to Wild Shape, Elemental Form, or Plant Form.
IF their intent is to have the same restriction on all of a Druids forms, they should have stated "A druid loses her ability to speak while Wild Shaped" or something along those lines. I feel like that was the intent, but it certainly isn't worded right if that's the case. I get the feeling I will just have to barter with my GM about it.
Is there any RAW that states one way or the other outside of what I quoted?
You can always learn the relevant language and make your party members do the same, thus if you're in Fire Elemental form you and your fellow PC can discuss things in Ignan.
Ruyan.
In case you hadn't seen it:
Wild Speech
You speak with the tongue of men and beasts.Prerequisites: Druid level 6th, wild shape class feature.
Benefit: When using wild shape to take the form in which you cannot speak (such as an animal), you are able to speak normally in any language you know. This allows you to cast spells with verbal components, speak command words, and activate spell completion and spell trigger items. However, it does not give you the ability to cast spells requiring somatic components unless you also have the Natural Spell feat, or cast spells with material components merged into your form.
When using wild shape to take the form of an animal, you may use speak with animals to communicate with animals of your assumed form. This is a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your druid level, and you may use it for a number of minutes per day equal to your druid level. These minutes do not have to be consecutive, but must be used in one-minute increments.
Elementals can speak, they have a language. What has never been clarified is whether or not they have the ability to make the somatic gestures necessary for casting.Actually, I'm more concerned with speech in regards to spell casting. I should have clarified. >.<You can always learn the relevant language and make your party members do the same, thus if you're in Fire Elemental form you and your fellow PC can discuss things in Ignan.
Ruyan.
If you don't know ignan normally, turning into a fire elemental doesn't suddenly allow you to speak the language.
Also, true elementals have mutable forms. As long as you choose the proper shape (changing into an earth elemental humanoid rather than an earth elemental dog for example) then I see no reason why you would have any trouble with somatic components.
I never doubted elementals have the ability to speak.
My point was if your average GM doubts a wild shaped druid in elemental form can cast spells speaking/trying to speak Common, just learn the language the elemental is associated with.
Concerning the somatic gestures: what Ravingdork said.
Ruyan.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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A not insignificant issue is that your spell component pouch and divine focus meld with your form in elemental shape, so you would lose access to them also. If you have prep time you could drop them before changing form, then pick them back up after.
There's a reason that Natural Spell is practically a druid must-have.
Elementals can speak, they have a language. What has never been clarified is whether or not they have the ability to make the somatic gestures necessary for casting.Actually, I'm more concerned with speech in regards to spell casting. I should have clarified. >.<You can always learn the relevant language and make your party members do the same, thus if you're in Fire Elemental form you and your fellow PC can discuss things in Ignan.
Ruyan.
If you don't know ignan normally, turning into a fire elemental doesn't suddenly allow you to speak the language.
Also, true elementals have mutable forms. As long as you choose the proper shape (changing into an earth elemental humanoid rather than an earth elemental dog for example) then I see no reason why you would have any trouble with somatic components.
Oddly, that rather arbitrary distinction of "humanoid-shaped elemental" has a distinct effect within the rules. In the elemental subtype entry, an elemental that is "generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry". While this guideline is pretty much copy pasted from the outsider type (it even includes the bits about armor proficiencies too), it is still a part of the entry and very applicable.
So this does have interesting implications on wildshape. While you never actually get the elemental subtype (this is still based off of a polymorph spell here), it still clearly indicates that an elemental can have hands that hold and use items fairly normally (very nice since druids have at least a couple good weapons proficinecies).
If that is the case, you could also that you have hands that could do somatic components without taking the natural spell feat. Calling back to the rules for polymorph spells, you can "can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak". So if your form can use items normally, why can't it do these kinds of movements normally?
Admittedly, that same section does say this is all up to GM discretion. They could easily say that having hands made of fire means you have trouble doing your jazz hands properly. Still, this all does lay down a solid enough argument to at least try to get more. If nothing else, I at least showed that you could be an armored, scimitar wielding elemental . And thus the world was a better place.