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I've been around for a couple years, I've read the reskinning threads, I've seen the rulings however before I go and interpret them I figured it couldn't hurt to just ask to make sure I am still on track.
Pretty easy question, can I reskin a Swordcane to be a Sword Parasol?
I know the Parasol can give you bonuses, I won't even use them, I'm not trying to mash two items together for cheese or anything, I just feel like my Sovereign Court Investigator would rather use a Sword Parasol than a Sword Cane.
Flavor text for Sword Cane: "This slender light blade lies within a wooden container that serves as both its scabbard and hiding place."
Rules text for Sword Cane: " You can draw the blade from the cane as a swift action (or a free action if you have the Quick Draw feat). An observer must make a DC 20 Perception check to realize an undrawn sword cane is a weapon rather than a walking stick; the DC decreases to 10 if the observer is able to handle the weapon. You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a sword cane sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon. You can't wield a sword cane in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier to damage."
So what do you guys think, reskin allowed or no?
I have a character who, rather than a Handy Haversack, has a Useful Utility Belt. If someone at the table had a problem, I'd probably roll my eyes so hard I sprain a muscle and say okay, it's a haversack until my next game.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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No. :)
Okay, more seriously, I would not have a problem with someone describing the cane as a parasol, but Expect Table Variation (TM). What you are doing falls under "Cool, but not technically legal"
Jared is correct, but just in case get a parasol and some string/glue and attach it to your sword cane.
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Combining a parasol and a sword cane would not be legal under the current PFS campaign rules.
Right I agree, that is why I said,
I'm not trying to mash two items together for cheese or anything, I just feel like my Sovereign Court Investigator would rather use a Sword Parasol than a Sword Cane.
As I said in my original post, I wasn't looking to combine two separate items, just add a little flavor to my noble lady who doesn't want to look foolish walking around with a cane, however a Parasol that seems sufficiently lady-like!
The responses so far have all been pretty much aligned with what I'd imagined they would be, "expect table variation". However I felt that I'd better cover my bases slightly by confirming that my very slight "reskin" wasn't completely preposterous like a Yellow Tengu and that at best I'd have to expect Table Variation.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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Combining a parasol and a sword cane would not be legal under the current PFS campaign rules.Right I agree, that is why I said,
I'm not trying to mash two items together for cheese or anything, I just feel like my Sovereign Court Investigator would rather use a Sword Parasol than a Sword Cane.As I said in my original post, I wasn't looking to combine two separate items, just add a little flavor to my noble lady who doesn't want to look foolish walking around with a cane, however a Parasol that seems sufficiently lady-like!
The responses so far have all been pretty much aligned with what I'd imagined they would be, "expect table variation". However I felt that I'd better cover my bases slightly by confirming that my very slight "reskin" wasn't completely preposterous like a Yellow Tengu and that at best I'd have to expect Table Variation.
You didn't ask if others thought it was a cool/fun idea. You asked if it was PFS legal to do it. Why you're doing something does not change whether it is campaign legal or not. You don't like the legal options, and you're looking for others to support your choice not to follow a rule.
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One has to be careful about how you reskin things. You must make sure that you don't make one thing with its own stats into something else that has its own stats. If a GM allows small and insignificant things. And players see this, then things can and will snowball. I've seen it. Eventually you'll be in a world of reskinning where dogs are pigs and half ords are half trolls.
That all being said, I would not be adverse to allowing you to use the imagery of a parasol for your cane (Penguin) as long as it didn't girlie you any benefits as a parasol (Mary Poppins).
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I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't trying to get any more bang for my buck than what the Sword Cane already offers.
I am perfectly happy with the responses that I got! Expect table variation is a better than no, 100% of the time. If occasionally I get to have a fun Sword Parasol and sometimes I have a completely adequate Sword Cane it is better than never having a Sword Parasol!
Especially since while the Sword Cane is a fun weapon, it isn't very good, but PFS shouldn't be all about optimization, sometimes it has to be about having fun too!
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't trying to get any more bang for my buck than what the Sword Cane already offers.
I am perfectly happy with the responses that I got! Expect table variation is a better than no, 100% of the time. If occasionally I get to have a fun Sword Parasol and sometimes I have a completely adequate Sword Cane it is better than never having a Sword Parasol!
Especially since while the Sword Cane is a fun weapon, it isn't very good, but PFS shouldn't be all about optimization, sometimes it has to be about having fun too!
GMs not enforcing the rules doesn't make something legal either. You simply don't want to follow a campaign rule, and you're using whatever justification you can find in order to feel better about your decision.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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My litmus test: would an ordinary NPC think that the item is some other item, with a property the actual item doesn't have? That's the essence of reskinning to me.
Does a parasol have game stats or abilities that someone else might normally expect that your Sword Parasol has? If it looks enough like a parasol to make people think that it might protect you from a rainshower, or a shower of some less wholesome substance, then I'd call foul. But if it's apparent to everybody that its parasol-nature is entirely cosmetic, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
I have a character who, rather than a Handy Haversack, has a Useful Utility Belt. If someone at the table had a problem, I'd probably roll my eyes so hard I sprain a muscle and say okay, it's a haversack until my next game.
Go ahead, sprain your eye muscle.
Does the item take up the belt slot?
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There are AMAZING dyes coming in from Tian Xia these days!
Why not a yellow Tengu?
1. Get a cloak of the hedge wizard or a pair of apprentice's cheating gloves.
2. Say that you use it every hour to dye your feathers yellow.
3. Name your mammoth animal companion Mr. Snuffleupagus.
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I have a character who, rather than a Handy Haversack, has a Useful Utility Belt. If someone at the table had a problem, I'd probably roll my eyes so hard I sprain a muscle and say okay, it's a haversack until my next game.
I'm assuming that since you have a "utility belt" that you aren't wearing a physical Stat boosting belt. And of course you paid extra for that item taking up a different slot.
Oh yeah, those rules aren't pfs legal, so roll you eyes and call you item what it is. Just because you don't like a rule doesn't mean you can ignore it.
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I could see a series of interwoven pouches that perform the same function as a 5# haversack (fannypack?) that 'clips' onto a belt (given that such things were kind of popular when I was growing up for hiking trips and the like).
But again, table variation.
If someone starts saying that they're pulling stuff out of their '90's style comic-book hero pouches' and it's all 'one handy haversack', that's a big *negative*, Ghostrider. Do not fly by. Do not collect 200 dollars.
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While I'm not endorsing the reskining of a haversack into a utility belt, nor saying that it's PFS legal, I do think it's worth pointing out that it's a slotless item already. So he's not shifting it from one slot to another and the cost is correct.
The description of the item is pretty specific, though, so tying it around one's waist might look more like an oversized hip pack than a utility belt.
EDIT: A series a Pathfinder Pouches would work to get the fantasy equivalent look. Though they don't offer the same action economy that the haversack does.
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While I'm not endorsing the reskining of a haversack into a utility belt, nor saying that it's PFS legal, I do think it's worth pointing out that it's a slotless item already. So he's not shifting it from one slot to another and the cost is correct.
The description of the item is pretty specific, though, so tying it around one's waist might look more like an oversized hip pack than a utility belt.
EDIT: A series a Pathfinder Pouches would work to get the fantasy equivalent look. Though they don't offer the same action economy that the haversack does.
A series of pathfinder pouches would get the look, at different cost and acton economy. That is the key point (not a ki point though), you don't get to change items in pfs to suit your desires. There needs to be consistency from table to table, venue to venue, etc. While I'm sure one could list many reskinnings that are harmless, each one that is allowed into the campaign as harmless leads to pushing the envelope. And I for one as a pfs gm have enough rulings to make during a game. I don't need an upset player because I play by the rules and his local gm doesn't.
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If it looks enough like a parasol to make people think that it might protect you from a rainshower, or a shower of some less wholesome substance, then I'd call foul. But if it's apparent to everybody that its parasol-nature is entirely cosmetic, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Exactly how I'd rule on this one too.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Also, when I tell a player that he needs to own a certain book to use the retraining rules (which he didn't possess) and later become aware that he did change a couple of feats... without even having enough PP to have done so.... well it is all hearsay until the next time I get a chance to audit that character, but some GM instructions need to be followed.
Usually when something is obviously illegal/wrong.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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"this is a sword cane, but the cane part is an parasol (but doesn't give me any benefits" is stretching it, but comes down to GM call.
But every NPC in the game will only see it as a sword cane. Because otherwise the character is gaining a mechanical advantage making it an illegal reskin. They'll have to tell every GM before every game that they wield a sword cane that is decorated to look like a parasol. Since he has to always refer to it as a sword cane for mechanical reasons. It's pointless to reskin it. Because if the GM asks him what he is holding they should never describe it only as a parasol.
If the player wants a long lasting legal way to make a sword cane look like a parasol the character can buy a hat of disguise.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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"this is a sword cane, but the cane part is an parasol (but doesn't give me any benefits" is stretching it, but comes down to GM call.But every NPC in the game will only see it as a sword cane. Because otherwise the character is gaining a mechanical advantage making it an illegal reskin. They'll have to tell every GM before every game that they wield a sword cane that is decorated to look like a parasol. Since he has to always reference to it as a sword cane for mechanical reasons. It's pointless to reskin it. Because if the GM asks him what he is holding they should never describe it only as a parasol.
If the player wants a long lasting legal way to make a sword cane look like a parasol the character can buy a hat of disguise.
Technically, most NPCs will see it as a cane and miss the sword part. Hopefully... :)
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Since people have weighed in, let me add the caveat that the words 'need'/'have to' are loaded words, and it caused me to read the text in a much more combative tone than was probably intended.
I guess I'm a bit nicer about things, rather than saying 'have to' and 'need'. A person doesn't 'need' to do anything. It'd probably be a *good idea* if they keep breathing, their heart keeps beating, they bathe, etc.
If someone brought an 'illegal etc' to my table, I suspect my response would be a bit more diplomatic but equally to the point. "That particular situation you have going there isn't legit. Please fix it."
At the end of the day, the result is the same, though.
Broken/illegal/not-allowed things don't get 'right of way'.
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After the crud I've had the past two weeks, I'll respectfully disagree.I'm gonna disagree.
I think "need" is a perfectly acceptable word to tie to breathing.
Well you are still typing, therefore you have been breathing, even if difficult. The fact your body forced you breath despite being all crudded up, tells me that its definitely a "need".
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I think Sword-Parasol might make for a good Chronicle Sheet item down the road.
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The glamered weapon property might be useful in this situation.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I can cite two examples of what I mean. I've met two players, and played at a table with one, who have two versions of a character. Not two characters; two versions.
In one, the player has an Aasimar character, but started the character after the race was restricted. He plays it and, he says, nobody ever checks to see if it's legal. If a GM were to ask, he has the same character, at the same level, with the same Chronicles, but designed as a human, with different racial modifiers, feats and skill ranks. He says he'll play the (legal) human PC if the GM asks to see his Aasimar racial boon, and then play it back as an Aasimar at the next table. That's what he means by "table variation."
Another player has an fighter with several teamwork feats, which works well when he plays with a friend who brings his Inquisitor to the table. He has "retrained" those teamwork feats to general feats more useful when his friend isn't around, and he bring whichever version to the table is more useful.
I haven't mentioned it to those players, but if I'm GMing, and they bring those characters to my table, I won't allow either version.
That's what If I catch you with something illegal, I want you to fix it and not "un-fix" it after you leave my table. The campaign has guidelines about re-skinning. There's some gray area in the center, but there's also situations where we have clear directives.
I'm not talking about GM-call gray areas.