I have a brand new player who wanted to be sneaky and dashing, so I ended up steering her toward the Sleuth archetype. Stats are roughly 10, 15, 12, 14, 13, 19
She's playing a Catfolk, because she loved the Khajiit in Skyrim.
Stats, race, and class are locked in.
I'm having trouble coming up with a good Lvl 1 feat. Weapon Finesse was the first thing I thought of, but she might want to go the long spear route, and has no experience in PF combat to narrow down her weapon choices.
Suggestions on other feats?
Her stats make her need weapon finesse or ranged to do anything useful in combat
That's a pretty terrible stats/class/race combo for combat, especially if you're starting at 1st. It'll be at least 3 levels before they have any damage bonus at all. Also, complicated to play, two pools of abilities with a variety of fiddly bits to manage.. Unless the rest of the party is similarly anti-optimized, why would you do that to a new player?
Sure you can't change it to un-rogue or swashbuckler? they're not particularly strong but they'd be better than this.. Or shave a point from Cha for str..
Maybe some sort of aid another build? Although those tend to need lots of feats or halfling access..
Are those stats in order, or can she move them around?
....why would you do that to a new player?
Because that's the character she wanted to play. She wants to focus more on RP than combat. I asked her if she wanted to do various things, i.e. Sneak attack, any casting, drinking extracts. She wanted to be able to do the social interaction skills, tumble around the battlefield, and know things about the enemies. She's probably going to end up being the flanking buddy most of the time. She didn't seem to mind that she's going to be fairly ineffective in combat.
Her companions are a dwarven hunter with a wolf, and half-Orc Druid with the Fire Domain, and a human Bloodrager (steelblood) with Destined Bloodline.
Are those stats in order, or can she move them around?
She rolled a 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17
The numbers are with the +2 to Dex and Cha and the -2 to Wis from Catfolk
I'd also recommend against. Sleuth isn't particularly good - workable, but not necessarily good - and it's not the kind of thing I'd lay upon a beginner.
If she wants to be sneaky, have good social interactions, tumble across the battlefield and know things about the enemies... yeah, I'd probably go with Bard.
Sneaky and dashing sounds more like a bard or maybe a swashbuckler than an investigator. I think 'smart and insightful' not 'sneaky and dashing' when it comes to the investigator. Why not let her be a bard instead? Or let her take 1 level of investigator and then go bard for the rest?
|
I'd recommend Archaeologist Bard as a Class. That does everything your friend seems to want. It has some spells, but nothing too overt. I'd also recommend swapping Wis and Dex before racial mods (leaving a 17 and an 11).
Then grab Weapon Finesse. Or take your first level as Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) and grab Fencing Grace. Followed by Archaeologist thereafter, presumably.
|
Ok, from the sound of it, she's ok playing a support role. So here are my suggestions, assuming everything is locked as stated:
Focus on Aid Another and providing a flank bonus. Both are relatively easy mechanics once you understand them, and combining them can really make a difference. There is a non-Halfling trait somewhere to make it so you give +3 when aiding another. I can't remember what it's called. I think it might have been in Ultimate Campaign (PFS had a trait for the Shadow Lodge that did that as well).
Investigator has the Effortless Aid talent, which turns Aid Another into a move action (swift if she spends Inspiration).
For a feat, I would take something skill focused that would give a broad benefit, but if you want to stick with a combat feat, then Combat Reflexes. It will help her immediately with getting extra AoOs with the Longspear and will start a small feat chain.
She should also take the Infusion discovery.
She can work toward taking Bodyguard.
She should aim for a Menacing weapon and Benevolent armor. When she threatens an opponent, which she can do a lot with Reach, anyone who flanks that opponent gets an extra +2 to hit on top of the normal flank bonus. On her turn she can aid another for offense to give another +3 to hit.
With Benevolent, when she uses Bodyguard or just Aid Another for defense, she increases her Aid Another bonus by the enhancement bonus of her armor.
So, on a normal turn she can move somewhere that she threatens, preferably into a flank. Aid Another for offense. She'd be giving her flank partner a +7 on their next attack and +4 on any iteratives. (Assuming a Menacing weapon)
If there's more than one member of her party that fights in melee, then instead of moving into a flank, move adjacent to one or both of her party members while they flank. Now both of them get the +2 from Menacing, and she can use Bodyguard to give them a +3 to AC (or more with Benevolent) on a few attacks per round.
Out of combat she'll have plenty of skills. Infusion will give her buffs to hand out before the fight. Eventually she can pick up Poisoner's Gloves, so she can actually actively buff a couple of times a day.
EDIT: Forgot to say that in addition to the Longspear, she should have a gauntlet or something that can threaten up close without having to drop the Longspear, to give her more flexibility with positioning for flanks and Bodyguard.
She "full stop" didn't want to cast any spells, or drink extracts, or anything. I'm not going to argue that it's the right choice, but it is her choice.
Swashbucklers don't get Disable Device or Stealth as class skills, both things she wants. I will suggest some of the Swashbuckler archetypes for her for future levels to see what she's interested in, as there are fun options there.
Thune, the +3 aid trait is still called Helpful, it's just not a Halfling race trait. I have a fully kitted out Halfling Investigator (Empiricist) that uses Benevolent armor, effortless aid, and bodyguard. He's currently passing out +5 for attacks and +8 to AC. 1 level of Ranger (Freebooter) helps him buff the whole party.
She "full stop" didn't want to cast any spells, or drink extracts, or anything. I'm not going to argue that it's the right choice, but it is her choice.
Swashbucklers don't get Disable Device or Stealth as class skills, both things she wants. I will suggest some of the Swashbuckler archetypes for her for future levels to see what she's interested in, as there are fun options there.
Thune, the +3 aid trait is still called Helpful, it's just not a Halfling race trait. I have a fully kitted out Halfling Investigator (Empiricist) that uses Benevolent armor, effortless aid, and bodyguard. He's currently passing out +5 for attacks and +8 to AC. 1 level of Ranger (Freebooter) helps him buff the whole party.
Hey, you. See if she is willing to go towards swashbuckler. There are some amazingly fun options, there.
For the rest, for a new player especially--just play it loose. Be understanding and forgiving. Let her know if she'd like to make a few changes down the line, that's okay. Give her permission to try things out. Sit down after her next level and ask what she liked and didn't. Do the same thing next level. This isn't "coddling" so much as it is listening.
It sounds like you're willing to work with a new player, and that is fantastic. What we can all forget sometimes is that a new player probably doesn't plan their PC out to level 10 or 15.
3.x chargen is also a game unto itself. It takes practice and try-agains.
She "full stop" didn't want to cast any spells, or drink extracts, or anything. I'm not going to argue that it's the right choice, but it is her choice.
Swashbucklers don't get Disable Device or Stealth as class skills, both things she wants. I will suggest some of the Swashbuckler archetypes for her for future levels to see what she's interested in, as there are fun options there.
Thune, the +3 aid trait is still called Helpful, it's just not a Halfling race trait. I have a fully kitted out Halfling Investigator (Empiricist) that uses Benevolent armor, effortless aid, and bodyguard. He's currently passing out +5 for attacks and +8 to AC. 1 level of Ranger (Freebooter) helps him buff the whole party.
Don't see why you wouldn't recommend a Swashbuckler or a Slayer still!
Slayer can do all the trap-related things she wants, and is not based around extracts or spells or what not. She NEEDS to do something in combat though.
Swashbucklers have the infiltrator archetype and you can always get Criminal (Disable Device) to handle traps.
|
|
Unchained Rogue sounds like a good fit, then. She'll still have plenty of skill points, and the high Charisma will add the Dashing part. If you can steer her toward a finesseable weapon instead of the Longspear, she'll at least be able to get Dex to damage from the class with that weapon. If she doesn't want to mess with sneak attack too often, she'll still be able to do some damage, and she won't have to deal with complicated mechanics like parry and riposte.
There's even the Cat Burgler archetype for a Catfolk character. It gives up a good ability in Uncanny Dodge (and Improved), but it boosts things that it sounds like she wants to do (stealth and traps and locks).
Helpful - That explains my confusion. Thanks. My Bodyguard character is for PFS and has the Shadow Lodge version of the trait.
I've seen lots of people say they are okay being a non combat character, then a few weeks they ask how to make their character better at combat when they realize how important combat is in the game