I want to help new player of our group to build buffer bard which will be also able to control battlefield with his longspear (thanks to attacks of opportunity) and casting spells. He will take Arcane duelist archetype (we already have skill monkey) and probably Half-orc (to get bite for threatening adjacent enemies).
He will have decent dexterity (14+2) and Combat reflexes to get lot of attacks of opportunity and will use his actions either to cast or attack. His main ability will be Strenght. Charisma doesn't have priority (about 14+2).
Are there good battlefield controlling spells on bard list?
If yes, please write them down.
Or should he specialise on buffing?
What are best combat feats for controlling battlefield with longspear?
As Arcane duelist he will probably choose longspear as his bonded item – is there better reach weapon he should pay feats to learn to use?
I've only played through level 3 on my bard, and I don't use a long spear. However, right out of the gate Grease has been super useful. Unwitting Ally is situational, but it's a level 0 and can be quite nice.
You can't threaten with it, but don't dismiss the whip. You don't have to spend any feats on it, since it's a class weapon, and it gives you a reach trip. Since the character will have a high strength it will connect more often than not, and it could easily give you the extra battlefield control you want at low levels.
I've only played through level 3 on my bard, and I don't use a long spear. However, right out of the gate Grease has been super useful. Unwitting Ally is situational, but it's a level 0 and can be quite nice.
You can't threaten with it, but don't dismiss the whip. You don't have to spend any feats on it, since it's a class weapon, and it gives you a reach trip. Since the character will have a high strength it will connect more often than not, and it could easily give you the extra battlefield control you want at low levels.
Grease looks good – thanks. I prefer longspear over whip, because you can use attacks of opportunity.
Maybe he should use buffs and combats feats to control battlefield – which should he take?
Most control feats I can think of usually want you in the thick of combat, so i don't know how well that will work with a bard. Debuff/buff feats could be a cool idea however. I'm personally a fan of with bards the arcane strike->riving strike combo. Another option I like, especially when I'm an orc, is bullying blow or dazzling display. In fact, if he has the feats, he could even combine the two ideas, making enemies really hurt (not to mention the other casters very happy due to the -4 to saves the enemies are taking), all while still being able to sing as well!
As for the weapon, spear should be fine, but he could always spend a trait on heirloom weapon if there is a specific martial reach weapon that catches his eye (just make sure he keeps good care of that weapon!). I wouldn't spend a feat for a weapon though.
Longspear is absolutly solid. And allows for the Flagbearer feat, which can be later enhanced even more with the Banner of the ancient Kings.
If you want to CC via spells, high CHA is a must or you will get frustrated by too many enemies makeing their saves.
From what you wrote it seems that you want to focus more on dealig some damage, handing out AOOs via reach and buff your mates. Then CHA can be moderate and focus more on STR.
Arcane Strike and Riveting Strike are good for this. As well as Power Attack and Cornugon Smash. Hit them and make the Shaken. And give them another -2 to saves via riveting strike. Your fullcasters will love this, and the melees will love your Inspire Courage and the Heroism spells you hand out.
I was suggesting the whip as a backup when you need a trip. A net could be useful as well.
|
With a Charisma that low I'd generally avoid spells with DCs. Bard works fine for that - they have a lot of awesome buff & utility spells.
My PFS bard has a Cha of just 14, and that's plenty high. But other that pulling out the occasional illusion (which he tries to set up so that they don't interact with it and therefore get no save) he casts nothing which allows a save.
Half-orc bard?
You can use spiked gauntlets for your non-reach weapon if you don't want to use Toothy. You could go for Sacred Tattoo alternate race feature and then use that luck trait (whose name I can't remember!) to get +2 to all Saving Throws. That Apprentice alternate class feature that gives you Endurance is pretty good too, especially if you have enough feats to get Diehard or those Deathless Initiate feat chains.
Any cool favored class bonus shenanigans?
1. Combat Reflexes
3. Power Attack
5. Arcane Strike
7. Cornugan Smash?
Does your archetype give you any bonus feats?
For all the crap they get, fate sure does favour half orcs, huh?
Chicks dig scars I guess.
And tusks and pig noses...a half orc bard? Yeah, right. I wish people would role-play that correctly (see "Plague of Shadows"--why everyone thinks half-orc is cosmopolitan enough to avoid prejudice in game is beyond me!).
But to get back on topic: You really have to make a choice: Higher DC for spells with a higher CHA, or more damage via a higher STR score (with a limit on what spells you can effectively cast).
If preparing is everything, then feat: Scribe scroll, is must. Use couple of days to write up some spells you really like to spam around.
I haven't played yet Bard, but someday I will test what would happen if I cast Beguiling Gift and offer my character. Note to self: don't try on cannibal.
Also, cast Glue Seal on cloth which you throw over enemy's head with dirty trick. I suspect he wouldnt remove that just with move action.
Get an animal, pet or summoned creature and release trow or send it middle of enemies. Be invisible. Cast Babble (occult spell) on your pet and throw it middle of enemies. Everyone (-those who saves) are immediately fascinated by sick babbling animal which has appeared in middle of them. Because you don't cast spell on enemy and the fascinated is secondary effect, you don't became visible.
And remember to cast first Eagle's Splendor to rise the DC of saves by 2.
Thank you guys :)
Feat wise, combat expertise and improved trip to greater trip are excellent for helping control the battle. But that is a lot of feats for a bard.And your CMB would still be weak. Not worth it.
Grease + Heighten Spell? Or would Spell Focus conjuration be better?
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
For Feats:
Combat Reflexes
Dirty Fighting- Why waste a spell when a trip or disarm will do? If you buy a Dusty Rose Prism and stick it in a Wayfinder you get a +2 to CMB and CMB. Which is basically taking Improved feats.
Stand Still- Stop them in their tracks.
Flagbearer- Pair this with a Wand of Moment of Greatness and you majorly profit for 750gp. Later buy a Banner of the Ancient Kings.
For Spells, You have received a lot of suggestions in this area. Here is my favorites.
0-
Sift + Message, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Ghost Sound
1-
Grease, Saving Finale, Charm Person, Windy Escape, Vanish
2-
Heroism, Mirror Image/Blur (Dealers Choice), Glitter Dust, Silence, Cat's Grace, Cure Moderate Wounds
3-
Good Hope, Haste, Dispel Magic, Jester's Jaunt, Confusion, Arcane Concordance
4-
Summon Monster 4, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility, Song of Healing
5-
Greater Heroism, Shadow Evocation, Greater Dispel Magic
6-
Cat's Grace, Mass, Dance of a Thousand Cuts, Waves of Ecstasy
Items I like:
Wands of Longstrider, Feather Step, Cure Light Wounds, Enlarge/Longarm, Moment of Greatness,
Scrolls- need a library of useful utility spells. UMD is a godly skill
Potions- Potion of Remove Blindness (cause you can't read a scroll while Blind)
Adamantine Weapon- Cause bypassing Constructs DR is very important. You can pair Silence with a Visual performance and adamantine weapon and cut down doors without a peep being heard.
Banner of the Ancient Kings- This speaks for itself.
Rods- Extend, Echoing, Quicken, Reach, Silent, Persistent.....All would be good depending on your coin. Lesser rods can be cheap...especially a lesser rod of Extend for 3,000gp.