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Can a Battle Host choose an item made from special material (example Mithril armor) as his Panoply Bond item at first level ?
I'm inclined to think he could...but nothing stated one way or the other in the ability.
I don't see why you would be able to. The text says that you get a masterwork shield, armor, or weapon. That's it. No magical enhancements, special abilities, or special materials. Of course it is masterwork so you can upgrade it when finances allow.
My thinking, is that usually when a class ability gives you an item, it states specifically that it "can't" be of a special material (if that is the case)...that combined with the fact that your bonded to that item permanently (so no upgrading later when finances allow)....is why I was inclined to think it may be acceptable.....
My thinking, is that usually when a class ability gives you an item, it states specifically that it "can't" be of a special material (if that is the case)...Example?
"Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one
at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bondmust fall into one of the following categories: amulet,
ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always
masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not
made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or
ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and
weapons must be wielded."
Of course the Wizard has the option of switching to a different bonded item later....which the Battle Host does not.
I suspect Starting a level 1 PC off in Adamantine Full plate is not intended so the answer is no.
The rules also so not say that a character cannot start off with a flying pink elephant, it is best to assume that they will say if you can have something exotic not that they will say you cannot
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....scratches flying pink elephant of off equipment list.....
Anyone seen a trait that allows you to start with armor made of special material....like the one for weapons ?
My thinking, is that usually when a class ability gives you an item, it states specifically that it "can't" be of a special material (if that is the case)...that combined with the fact that your bonded to that item permanently (so no upgrading later when finances allow)....is why I was inclined to think it may be acceptable.....
I think I was unclear. You can't change the material later, but you can add enhancement bonuses and special abilities.
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Okay, I see what you mean.
However, it's not a strong argument. You could just as easily say that the arcane bond indicates that when a class ability gives you an item, that item should not be made of any special material. It wouldn't be the first instance of reminder text.
Special materials are generally much too expensive to be balanced for a 1st level character, with Adamantine Full Plate at 16,500gp.
Also, as gisher pointed out, if you're assuming a permissive allowance on the item (if it doesn't say you can't have X, you can have X) you could add magical or other goodies to your bonded item, and that's clearly not intended.
If you are disappointed about not being able to eventually get special materials, I would talk to your GM and see if they would allow you to have it reforged or magically transformed for an appropriate cost.
I think the example of Adamantine full plate is a good expample which demonstrates there is no intent to allow special materials. Dr 3/- at 16,500gp is rather a lot for a 1st level character. I cannot think or see in a quick check that there is any trait which allows special materials for armour. IIRC the ones for weapons only allow cold iron or Silver neither of which are much good for armour anyway
(By the way excellent answer to my last post)
Edit
As a GM I would almost certainly allow reforging with a special material later
Anyone seen a trait that allows you to start with armor made of special material....like the one for weapons ?
Which trait lets you start with a weapon made of special materials?
Anyone seen a trait that allows you to start with armor made of special material....like the one for weapons ?Which trait lets you start with a weapon made of special materials?
Ancestral Weapon: You have inherited a sacred tribal weapon wielded by your forebears since the days before the Rain of Stars, and you were trained in its use from a young age. Select either cold iron or silver.
You begin play with a masterwork melee weapon made of the material of your choice. You must be proficient with this weapon, and its combined cost cannot exceed 500 gp. You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with weapons made of the selected material.
Anyone seen a trait that allows you to start with armor made of special material....like the one for weapons ?Which trait lets you start with a weapon made of special materials?Ancestral Weapon: You have inherited a sacred tribal weapon wielded by your forebears since the days before the Rain of Stars, and you were trained in its use from a young age. Select either cold iron or silver.
You begin play with a masterwork melee weapon made of the material of your choice. You must be proficient with this weapon, and its combined cost cannot exceed 500 gp. You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls with weapons made of the selected material.
Interesting. But even that doesn't let you have a mithral or adamamtine weapon. And it wouldn't let you change your bonded weapon either. You would have one masterwork bonded weapon that isn't made of special materials and one masterwork weapon that was made of cold iron or silver.
Battle Host Occultists can use Versatile Weapon, Philosopher's Touch, or enhancement bonuses to address this problem with their weapons, but sadly there don't seem to be equivalents for armor.
Mechanically the only thing a mithral weapon does is bypass DR/Silver. So same difference. But granted, mithril benefits armor far more than weapons....
Can't find a spell that can be used later to transform the material composition either :(
Ah well....back to the drawing board....
I think everybody knows in their heart of hearts that the intention of the class feature is to let people start with a 2000ish GP item (which isn't way out of bounds for a class feature; a gunslinger can start with a musket) not to let players start with a 15,000ish GP item (roughly the WBL of a 6th level character) and that trying to finagle adamant full plate at level 1 is abusive and probably hurts the game since low levels are trivial for you so the game is less interesting for everyone.
If a player had a backstory that justified say, an adamantine warhammer forged by his ancient dwarven ancestors whose power he channels, I would probably allow that, because it's less game warping but still pretty cool (and a regular warhammer wouldn't be a very good use of that feature anyway), but almost certainly not the adamantine plate.
I think everybody knows in their heart of hearts that the intention of the class feature is to let people start with a 2000ish GP item (which isn't way out of bounds for a class feature; a gunslinger can start with a musket) not to let players start with a 15,000ish GP item (roughly the WBL of a 6th level character) and that trying to finagle adamant full plate at level 1 is abusive and probably hurts the game since low levels are trivial for you so the game is less interesting for everyone.
If a player had a backstory that justified say, an adamantine warhammer forged by his ancient dwarven ancestors whose power he channels, I would probably allow that, because it's less game warping but still pretty cool (and a regular warhammer wouldn't be a very good use of that feature anyway), but almost certainly not the adamantine plate.
I agree. The rules don't allow special materials, but I can see a GM allowing it to make an interesting storyline.
every other free lv1 item has been NO special material allowed. So it's safe to think that they didn't explicitly say it and not intentionally left if off.
For PFS, I wouldn't take ironwood even though it doesn't change the cost (how dare you try to avoid rust monsters).
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Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material.
Specifies that the item is of the masterwork quality but can not be special materials.
At 1st level, a gunslinger gains one of the following firearms of her choice: blunderbuss, musket, or pistol. Her starting weapon is battered, and only she knows how to use it properly. All other creatures treat her gun as if it had the broken condition. If the weapon already has the broken condition, it does not work at all for anyone else trying to use it. This starting weapon can only be sold for scrap (it's worth 4d10 gp when sold). The gunslinger also gains Gunsmithing as a bonus feat.
Special: If you are a gunslinger, this feat grants the following additional benefit. You can use this feat to repair and restore your initial, battered weapon. It costs 300 gp and 1 day of work to upgrade it to a masterwork firearm of its type.
Specifies the weapon is treated as broken, and gunsmithing states that you can upgrade the battered weapon to masterwork. So masterwork weapons are off limit, it states nothing about special material so you could RAW select a special material that is not masterwork.
A bolt ace is proficient with all crossbows instead of all firearms and begins play with a masterwork crossbow of her choice. This ability alters the gunslinger’s weapon proficiencies and replaces gunsmith.
Specifies the item is masterwork and does not specify a material so RAW you could select special materials.
At 1st level, a battle host forms a supernatural bond with a specific weapon, suit of armor, or shield. This selection is permanent and can never be changed. The bonded item is masterwork quality and the battle host begins play with it at no cost.
Specifies masterwork quality and does not specify a material, RAW you can select an item of any material, including adamantine fullplate. I would like to specify that I do not agree with this, but as currently written this is how it would function in PFS.
Another interesting note, the classes that start with spell/formulae/ etc. books do not specify qualities outside of the number of spells, so as written it would appear that you could select special spell books as long as the number of spells is correct. So things like Nyzam's Remedies, compact spellbook, traveling formula book, and traveling spellbook could be selected as starting books.
Ironwood is not on the list of Always Available special material.
RE: Spellbooks - What are you telling people? Nyzam' says Remedies or any other spellbook with rituals are not always available. You would still need a fame of 5+ to purchase them. Mundane spellbooks, like traveling spellbooks, are mundane equipment and are always available, yes, but ritual books are not mundane equipment.