So making a back up character for PFS and trying to make a int based warrior who is good at knowledge checks, maybe heals here and there along with magic to buff himself up. I really want to like the bard/skald but i find the spell list...lack luster. Was thinking about the alchemist but the lack of detect magic is rough...and I really like the investigator but taking a level first of the swashbuckler and then investigator to make him useful feels like I'm pushing a slow class that much slower (but better to go that route so i can be useful before level 3 or 4. Tinkering with the occultist right now..just curious what advice you guys may offer...or am i trying to do everything too much?
Magus might help with the intelligent warrior idea. Not much healing besides infernal, though
you can go str based investigator, it doesn't need a dip.
Or a Lore Oracle with the Psychic Searcher archetype
Was looking at a lore oracle with the psychic searcher, ill re-look at the investigator str build (probably go empiricist)
Occultist may work. Pick up Transmutation and you're a formidable foe in melee with a greatsword. Especially if you go Battle Host, but it severely stunts your magic capabilities with the decrease in schools/implements.
Investigator will suffer from the same lack of Detect Magic as the Alchemist, but I can not personally recommend investigators enough. Probably the best class Paizo ever did.
One thing that has me worried as a investigator is the AC...going str route i end up with Str 18, dex 14, Con 12 Int 15, wis 10 and cha 7. So with a chain shirt I'm at 16 AC..debating between half elf and half orc. Level one feat would be a tough call between toughness and extra inspiration. What would you pick for a weapon?
With the occultist would battle host be better for my idea or just vanilla. (Transmutation and abjuration would be my choices but i lose out in heals)
One thing that has me worried as a investigator is the AC...going str route i end up with Str 18, dex 14, Con 12 Int 15, wis 10 and cha 7. So with a chain shirt I'm at 16 AC..debating between half elf and half orc. Level one feat would be a tough call between toughness and extra inspiration. What would you pick for a weapon?
With the occultist would battle host be better for my idea or just vanilla. (Transmutation and abjuration would be my choices but i lose out in heals)
Personally recommendation, get INT to 16, with your Mutagen on you only have 14 INT, which means only 2 rounds of Studied Combat, which is pretty big compared to the 1 round your current 13 INT would get you of it. Studied Combat is huge, it's extremely powerful and important, you want it as much as you can. Enough that I'd recommend dropping STR to 17 to get it. You can grab that 18 STR at lvl 4 instead.
Investigators sadly don't really get up and running until lvl 4. But at lvl 3 you'll get your STR mutagen, bringing you up to 18 AC, and in the meantime you got Shield for another +4 AC.
Alternatively, Pick up Medium armor Proficiency, eventually get a Breastplate, so you have 18 AC, Mutagen brings you to 20, and Shield gets you to 24. Eventually toss on Barkskin and you'll get an extra +2 up to a nice 26 AC when buffed. Not bad for lvl 4.
Investigators typically take half-elf as their racial of choice for the inspiration FCB, but personally I'm a big proponent of half-orc for Fate's Favored/Sacred Tattoo synergy. Plus spend an extra 5k for a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier and you'll gain an easy, cheap +2 AC from the Fate's Favored, so your base AC will effectively be 22, since by this point Mutagen is on for basically the entire combat day.
For occultist, it really depends. The most important schools are Transmutation, Abjuration, and Divination. A base occultist gets all 3 by lvl 2. A Battle Host gets all 3 by level... 10. But Battle Host also gets Mwk full plate at lvl 1. It really comes down to if you'd rather have the benefit of those extra schools/implements, or the benefit of the Battle Host in combat.
Heretek. figured at level 4 when i get studied target, I would bump the int to 16. Was looking at the traits for Accelerated drinker and student of philosophy, my init will be really poor. Was thinking about a con 12 and then the favored bonus to hp I'll check the fcb for the half elf.
fendel, that is pretty cool the quest i did gives me a free wayfinder and reduces the cost of enh for it by 1.
Even with 8 skill points I'm looking pretty thin on skills
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I really want to like the bard/skald but i find the spell list...lack luster.
For a Knowledge base character that can buff with spells. The bard spell list is top notch. What you lack is the attack spell. They don't have any flashy spells on their list. I have played a standard bard no archtype to 12. I have also started a Bard Arcane Duelist who is now 3. The bard spell list dose not lend it self to being used offensively. It can but made that way. However your making it do something it was not built for. Results will be lack luster at best. The main focus of the bard spell list is two things. Problem solving and buffing/group buffing.
With my bard past level 9. It was so bad at the end most GM in my area disliked my bard. As he almost guarantied the scenario was just made easy. Due to buffs and skill checks. It really is all in how you build.
Heretek. figured at level 4 when i get studied target, I would bump the int to 16. Was looking at the traits for Accelerated drinker and student of philosophy, my init will be really poor. Was thinking about a con 12 and then the favored bonus to hp I'll check the fcb for the half elf.
Even with 8 skill points I'm looking pretty thin on skills
Accelerated Drinker only works with potions. Extracts aren't potions. It's situationally useful at best. You're better off grabbing Reactionary if you really want to help your initiative. I assume your DM isn't making everyone take a campaign trait?
You could do that and just grab the 16 int at 4, or 18 str at 4, both function similarly, but it's tough to argue with 9 skill points a level as you mentioned. It helps a lot. And since you're going Empiricst you'll get an extra free 1d6 on every knowledge check you have trained, so as you level you can just pop 1 point into each and now you're in a pretty damn good knowledge/skill position. For that reason I feel the int matters more.
I currently have a lvl 7 Empiricst investigator in a Shattered Star game, and for my FCB I just take the extra HP. Lvl 1 I took Medium Armor Proficiency, 3 Power Attack and Mutagen, 5 Extra Talent: Quick study and Sapping Offensive, and now at 7 I've got Sickening Offensive and Cornugon Smash. For my traits I had to take a campaign one so I took Fate's Favored, and Bruising Intellect (int to intimidate) and Paranoid drawback to fit the campaign trait in. I'm super satisfied with this character at the moment, more so than anything else I've played. I do a minimum of 20 damage with a +14 to hit with power attack, and I'm excellent at every knowledge in the book, perception, and a handful of other skills. Also now I just got 3rd level extracts and can fly around as a gargoyle for 7 minutes. It's pretty rad.
Heretek. figured at level 4 when i get studied target, I would bump the int to 16. Was looking at the traits for Accelerated drinker and student of philosophy, my init will be really poor. Was thinking about a con 12 and then the favored bonus to hp I'll check the fcb for the half elf.
fendel, that is pretty cool the quest i did gives me a free wayfinder and reduces the cost of enh for it by 1.
Even with 8 skill points I'm looking pretty thin on skills
If you go with and elf, gnome, or dwarf, you can pick up Breadth of Experience, which lets you make knowledge checks untrained and gives you a +2 on the check.
That will let you focus your actual skill ranks on the skills that really matter to you. (One note: Heightened Awareness only boosts knowledge skills that you have ranks in, so you won't be able to benefit from that spell as much.)
If you go with and elf, gnome, or dwarf, you can pick up Breadth of Experience, which lets you make knowledge checks untrained and gives you a +2 on the check.That will let you focus your actual skill ranks on the skills that really matter to you. (One note: Heightened Awareness only boosts knowledge skills that you have ranks in, so you won't be able to benefit from that spell as much.)
Base investigator does that already at lvl 3, though not the +2 on the checks. Like I said, just pop 1 point down the line of all knowledges and you're golden. They are all class skills and there is 0 reason to not do so, plus you get the free 1d6 inspiration roll to every one of them. 1 rank at lvl 1 with 16 int gives you 7+1d6. Pick like 2 to focus on, and sprinkle the rest in.
The Strength Patron Witch has the potential to create an Eldritch Knight with Divine Favor and Greater Magic Weapon on top of Ironskin and healing spells, not to mention Flight. With Dual Talent split ability scores and maybe a specialized spell like Persistent Hideous Laughter, you can drop a nasty offensive spell here and there as well.
There are issues to deal with like potentially needing Arcane Armor Training, but it's actually a surprisingly potent EK path, and the flavor of the concept can be played as anything from a rapier-wielding warlock to a raging voodoo-barbarian.
Edit: Just to note, the offensive abilities of a Strength Witch/EK are nothing to scoff at. At the cost of a total of -3BAB (ever), you can combine long-term Heroism, short-term Divine Favor and Arcane Strike.
@Badbird Huh I didn't look at the full casters, wouldn't the base attack bonus really hurt that idea though?
@Gwen Smith...actually that heightened awareness is pretty sweet (Iplan to put a dip in every skill within a level or two. Unfortunatly the gnome and dwarf really dont match point wise and the elf is awesome but i would be back to the dex build
@Heretek I would keep the 18 str so my offense is up to par until the abilities kick in two handing a weapon for +6 damage instead of +4 makes a big difference 1-4.K Accelerated drinker is out. Doing PFS, is the med armor worth losing the 10ft?
@Akerlof..hmm good ideas I really hope someone will have it, so i dont have to worry bout it but hey that should go on the list.
@Calagnar... I agree and I love the concept of the bard...but I admit that what i want doesn't fit it.
@Badbird Huh I didn't look at the full casters, wouldn't the base attack bonus really hurt that idea though?
Yeah, generally a full caster would have BAB issues. However, going Eldritch Knight after 6 levels of caster stops any further loss of BAB. So something like a Swashbuckler 1/ Witch 6/ Eldritch Knight 2 has 6BAB, which is identical to what a 3/4 melee class has at that level. And like 3/4 melee classes, the Strength Patron witch has ways to overcome the difference - Divine Favor and Heroism combined can add up to way more than the lost BAB. By comparison, a Bard has Heroism and Inspire Courage - but Inspire Courage is only a +2/2 until the end of PFS, while Divine Favor can be a +3/3 by level 6 with the proper traits.
The single biggest issue is that while a 3/4BAB class waits two extra levels for their first iterative attack, a typical Witch/EK waits 3 levels instead. Still, you can swing a two-handed weapon for massive damage, or perform some pretty deadly switch-hitter archery, or use your major damage buffing to run other kinds of extra attacks well, or some combination of all of the above.
Well apparently, PFS felt the need to get ban-happy with Ironskin because - 'Oh God, NO!' - people were using a level 2 spell for improved AC. So on the dex-based side...
Madoc the Gray
Inspired Blade Swashbuckler 1/ Hex Channeler Witch 6/ Eldritch Knight 4
Dual Talent Human: 13, 15/17, 14, 15/17, 8, 10
Traits: Magical Knack, Fate's Favored
Familiar: Sage Raven
1IB. +Weapon Finesse / Fencing Grace / *Panache*
2HC. *Hex: Flight*
3HC. Additional Traits: Wayang Spellhunter (Unadulterated Loathing) & Bruising Intellect / *Channel Energy 1d6*
4HC.
5HC. Arcane Armor Training / *Channel Energy 2d6*
6HC.
7HC. Power Attack / *Channel Energy 3d6*
8EK. +Cornugon Smash
9EK. Persistent Spell
10EK.
11EK. Empower Spell
Arms and Armor: Keen Grayflame Spell Storing rapier, mithral kikko, buckler, Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf (rapier gains 5ft reach).
Notable Spells: Divine Favor, Persistent Unadulterated Loathing (target is nauseated and must take AoO's while fleeing; may be applied to raven familiar for efficient 'herding'), Confusion, Empowered Stone Discus (benefits from Divine Favor, no spell resistance; 3x 4d6x1.5 +4 at 11).
Really think I'm gonna go the the investigator route...Question is what race to go? Toss up between Human, half orc or half elf...with str focus
If you are going STR Investigator, I would suggest that you take a long look at Half Orc: the weapon options are a big win, as well as the ST bonuses, if you choose the right trait and racial trait.
The weapon options aren't that great for Investigators since they aren't eligible for the Inspired special ability. The intimidate bonus is nice for debuffing builds.
Really think I'm gonna go the the investigator route...Question is what race to go? Toss up between Human, half orc or half elf...with str focus
What sort of combat style are you going for?
I suggest going for a longspear. if you run in an use an extract, and somebody runs at you, you just made your attack back.
I really like going half-elf for the FCB. getting +1 to inspiration rolls every 4 levels is really nice because of all the things it touches.
I personally went 16+2/13/14/16/7/7 with a half-elf. I got the alternate trait to boost will saves, to negates the low will, and you get a bonus against enchantment.
Half-orc still helps since falchions are still a great secondary weapon. I main a long spear but the falchion is great as a back up.
Half-elf FCB is easily the best of the races though.
I missed the inspired weapons...wow But yeah now I'm trying to figure which way to go. So far looking at 18 str, Dex 14, Con 12, int 15, wis 10 and cha 7. Thinking about level one med armor feat. Probably get the inspired weapon asap..thinking the polearm with combat ref asap...which would be nice for human. Either that or toughness...favored bonus was thinking towards hp