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Recently I was looking into making a Nagaji character (for fun) and I was trying to come up with something I hadn't tried before. One idea I came up with was a melee-based mesmerist. As some of the mesmerist's abilities play into melee attacks (like painful stare) it seemed like a decent way to go. Problem is how to do it.
I know that the vexing daredevil is built for that, but giving up bold stare (in particular psychic inception) just seems like too much of a blow. Too many things are immune to mind effecting effects, I feel like I need psychic inception to work. Problem is, without the vexing daredevil's bonus to feinting, is there even a reason to take improved feint?
Thoughts?
I have a similar idea, using a longspear and reach in combination with painful stare/hypnotic stare to debuff/do tons of damage to bad guys. Of course, you don't need reach, just get medium armor proficiency, be a half-orc and swing away with a greataxe or falchion while staring bad guys into oblivion.
Overall, it is not a bad idea.
With intense pain, it is decent enough damage that you can do a 1 big hit build.
Reach is fantastic, since you can get your one big hit even if you spend your turn casting. A rather unique advantage.
Furious focus is rather nice, since...well..who cares about subsequent attacks? You just want your guaranteed hit.
Half orc might be interesting for race, since their favored class bonus gives an extra 1/2 level to the damage. You one hit is similar to a hit from a paladin's smite...and that is BEFORE the extra 9d6.You may want to take toughness at level 1 (when you aren't qualfying for much else) to keep from being squishy though.
The armor expert trait is rather nice. Since the penalty for using armor your aren't proficient in is applying the armor check penalty to attack rolls, an ACP of 0 means the penalty is 0. Combining a mithral breast plate with armor expert basically gives you pseudo medium armor proficiency. A realtively cheap way to get an extra +2 AC is not unwelcome, no?
Overall, it isn't a bad build. You aren't going to be the one tearing apart bosses...but you will generally have options. Your one hit is a nice enough chunk, along with usual boosts like power attack, that it is worth doing. And even when that hit isn't the best option, you still have skills, spells, and debuffs. So just letting someone else get the lesser damage boost isn't bad either while you hang back.
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Thanks for the comments. One of the things I really wanted to try was a Nagaji build (not half-orc) so here's what I came up with.
Stats (20 point buy)
Str: 16, Dex:12, Con:14, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Chr 16
Nagaji Mesmerist 1
N Medium Humanoid (Nagaji)
Init+1 Senses: Low-Light, Perception +6
DEFENSE
AC16 flat-footed 15, touch 11 (+4 armor, +1 Natural, +1 Dex)
HP 11(1d8+3)
Fort+2, Ref+3, Will+3(+5 vs. mind effecting)
OFFENSE
Speed30
Melee Longspear +3 (1d8+4) or Spiked Gauntlet (1d4+3)
Ranged Javalin: +1 (1d6+3)
Space[b]5 ft.,[b]Reach5 ft. (10 with longspear)
Special Attacks Spells, Painful stare (+1 dmg)
Spell-Like Abilities
Class Abilities Consummate liar, hypnotic stare, knacks, mesmerist trick, painful stare
Spells
1-(2/day) Demand offering, Fairy Fire
0-Detect magic, read magic, Light, Prestidigitation
Base Atk+0; CMB +3 CMD14
Feats Combat Reflexes
SkillsPerception, Spellcraft, UMD, Knowledge (history and Local), Bluff
TraitsArmor Expert, Indomidable will
Alternate Racial Traits None
LanguagesCommon, Draconic
Gear of note Longspear, Javalins, Lamallar leather armor, spiked gauntlet
First level: Trick- Reflection of Weakness, feat (combat reflexes)
2nd level: Trick-Linked reaction
3rd: Feat: Improved Feint, bold stare-Psychic Inception
4th: Trick: Misdirection
5th: Feat: Mesmerising feint
6th: Trick: ???
7th: Feat: Intense Pain, Bold Stare: Timidity
8th: Trick: ???
9th: Feat: Greater Feint,
10: Trick ???
11: Feat: Greater Mesmerising feint, Bold stare- (sapped magic?)
Character concept: While my Mesmerist sits in the back row and hits people 10 ft away with a spear, he's dealing a decent amount of damage (via the painful stare and eventually intense pain). At level 3 he can start feinting opponents with higher dex to make a hit more likely, and at 4 he can start aiding those with sneak attacks by using his tricks to feint for them.
At five he gets to the point where he can feint weird things fairly easily, and can start debuffing enemies. At 9 he can turn off someones dex for the entire round (enabling all the sneak attacks), and at 11, he can even do it to mindless things 50% of the time.
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Vexing Daredevil seems like a solid archetype for a melee focused Mesmerist. One of the current Mesmerist guides also describes a melee build which seems pretty solid here, just ignore the 3pp race used.
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Vexing Daredevil seems like a solid archetype for a melee focused Mesmerist. One of the current Mesmerist guides also describes a melee build which seems pretty solid here, just ignore the 3pp race used.
I went over that in the initial post. I looked at Vexing Daredevil, and it seems very limited.
To do any of its tricks, a Vexing Daredevil needs to feint its hypnotic stare victim. Hypnotic stare is a mind-effecting effect. Thus the vexing daredevil looses all of its power when fighting elementals, constructs, plants, undead, etc.
A NORMAL mesmerist gets the bold stare class feature, which opens up the Psychic inception bold stare, which allows the stare to work on mindless or mind-effecting-immune creatures. A vexing daredevil never gets bold stare options.
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The Mesmerizing Feint feats eliminate that need... sorta. Vexing Mesmerist also get pretty much all the important feint feats you need.
Except the ability to use their main class feature on undead, elementals, whathaveyou. They do not get the psychic inception bold stare (they give up bold stare for other stuff) so they can't even get greater mesmerizing stare.
http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Greater%20Mesmerizing %20Feint
Except the ability to use their main class feature on undead, elementals, whathaveyou. They do not get the psychic inception bold stare (they give up bold stare for other stuff) so they can't even get greater mesmerizing stare.http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Greater%20Mesmerizing %20Feint
With regards to Greater the question really is if you use hypnotic stare against a mindless creature, does it still become the "subject" of your stare, regardless of if it works or not. I'd say yes, it does, therefore the feat works, but that's for a FAQ probably.
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With regards to Greater the question really is if you use hypnotic stare against a mindless creature, does it still become the "subject" of your stare, regardless of if it works or not. I'd say yes, it does, therefore the feat works, but that's for a FAQ probably.
Except the ability to use their main class feature on undead, elementals, whathaveyou. They do not get the psychic inception bold stare (they give up bold stare for other stuff) so they can't even get greater mesmerizing stare.http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Greater%20Mesmerizing %20Feint
Vexing Daredevil:(Emphasis mine)
At 3rd level, each time a vexing daredevil successfully feints against a creature under the effect of her hypnotic stare, she also chooses one of her dazzling feint benefits to activate.
Hypnotic Stare: (Emphasis mine)
A mesmerist can focus his stare on one creature within 30 feet as a swift action. That creature takes a –2 penalty on Will saving throws. This penalty changes to –3 at 8th level. A mesmerist can maintain his stare against only one opponent at a time; it remains in effect until the mesmerist stares at a new target, the opponent dies, the opponent moves farther than 30 feet away, or the mesmerist falls unconscious or dies. The mesmerist can remove the memory of his stare from the target's mind; The creature doesn't remember that it was affected (nor does it realize that it is currently being affected) unless the mesmerist allows it. The hypnotic stare is a psychic effect, and relies more on the mesmerist's focus than the target's perception of his stare. It can't be avoided in the same ways a gaze attack can. The mesmerist can use this ability even while blinded, but must succeed at a DC 20 concentration check to do so. Staring at a creature requires the mesmerist's focus, so if he uses a gaze attack or similar ability, he must target the subject of his hypnotic stare or voluntarily end the stare. The penalties from multiple mesmerists' stares don't stack, nor do they stack with penalties from witches' evil eye hexes. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Traits of a creature immune to Mind-affecting
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
If the creature is IMMUNE to mind-affecting effects, it cannot be under the EFFECT OF YOUR HYPNOTIC STARE, as your stare is Mind-effecting, Q.E.D.
Greater Mesmerizing simply allows you to feint a mindless creature... 50% of the time. I didn't say it allowed dazzling feint benefits, which Greater Mesmerizing is not.
All Greater Mesmerizing Feint requires is the target be the subject of your stare. Nothing about being under the effect.
Damn, I was all in on vexing daredevil but this has really opened my eyes. Now I am certainly second guessing myself. Bump for any more input on this issue. I am looking to build a core races only 20 point buy melee mesmerist.
Damn, I was all in on vexing daredevil but this has really opened my eyes. Now I am certainly second guessing myself. Bump for any more input on this issue. I am looking to build a core races only 20 point buy melee mesmerist.
The main things likely to be immune are Constructs, Oozes, Plants, Undead, and Vermin. Provided none of those are likely a major focal point of the campaign, you'll probably be alright. Obviously if the campaign is heavily undead focused though, you're gonna have a bad day.
I'm thinking about doing a halberd-centric Mesmerist, that Vexing Daredevil would be amazing, if only it could affect mindless creatures.
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Get that Heavy Armor Prof son.
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There's a reason that no one in this thread mentioned Desna's shooting star/way of the shooting star. That's the release date of its source in late 2016. Thread necromancy runs into problems like that all the time.
Solid debuffer there though Grimfang.