Hi,
First off, this is not supposed to be a flame thread about all the old issues/hate for the unchained monk.
I was one of the people to give some criticism to the unchained monk. I have since started such a character. So far he is kicking some serious ass, and surviving well. I am only level 3, so no Ki powers yet.At level 1 I had the most HP in the party. Playing a human with Toughness as one of my first feats. (the other being dodge and deflect arrows.) Favoured class bonus goes into HP as well.
All in all I wanted to hear if anyone has had a similar pleasant surprise when they actually tried the class out in a real game?
The aim for this character is to end up as a kind of "Muay Thai god of death". I was surprised when he started pulling it off very well from level 2 :P
I enjoyed my UnMonk but it was just when Unchained came out. I tested out the class before giving it flak, and I recommended everyone did the same.
Glad to know you enjoyed it.
Word to the wise: get all the FCB Ki. If you don't have qualms with using Ki Leech, it should be your 10th level ki power. It solves most of your ki availability issues.
Not sure what Combat Style you'd be using (Dragon, Jabbing, Crane all have its merits), but unless you do Dragon, Power Attack is not as good as Weapon Focus, and even then it's not particularly great until level 8ish. Power Attack becomes amazing at level 11 though.
Just reached level 3 and took Dragon style. I've always wanted to give this style a try. (I have only had it on a ninja before) Charging through allies will help a lot, esp in the AP I am playing. (Hell's Rebels)
Not a too big fan of ki leech, but will see how I feel closer to lvl10 :P
My starting stats were also not too exiting.
16,14,14,10,15,08.
Obviously getting STR and WIS items.
Sounds like a plan!
Currently doing a harrow warden master of many styles unchained monk with the peace, cleanliness, and truth vows for extra ki. She is ridiculously tanky (though admittedly the party arcanist giving her mage armor helps this a lot) and her accuracy when I'm not rollings 4s and 5s is decent enough that I can usually land a hit and do decent damage each round. You DEFINITELY want that temple sword nearby early in the game, even when using Crane Style from the get go, because yay 1d8 and x1.5 Str mod to damage.
So, yeah, the class is solid. It's a mystical beatstick with a few interesting tricks. Gonna miss the option for poison immunity and such later, but I'm looking forward to style strikes as well.
Currently doing a harrow warden master of many styles unchained monk with the peace, cleanliness, and truth vows for extra ki. She is ridiculously tanky (though admittedly the party arcanist giving her mage armor helps this a lot) and her accuracy when I'm not rollings 4s and 5s is decent enough that I can usually land a hit and do decent damage each round. You DEFINITELY want that temple sword nearby early in the game, even when using Crane Style from the get go, because yay 1d8 and x1.5 Str mod to damage.
So, yeah, the class is solid. It's a mystical beatstick with a few interesting tricks. Gonna miss the option for poison immunity and such later, but I'm looking forward to style strikes as well.
I mostly dont fight with weapons. I do however have a "jedi" like monk who uses a temple sword and crane style.
Keep in mind that Crane Wing requires you to fight with one hand free, so if you get more of the style feats, its back down to 1x Str mod on damage.
Currently doing a harrow warden master of many styles unchained monk with the peace, cleanliness, and truth vows for extra ki. She is ridiculously tanky (though admittedly the party arcanist giving her mage armor helps this a lot) and her accuracy when I'm not rollings 4s and 5s is decent enough that I can usually land a hit and do decent damage each round. You DEFINITELY want that temple sword nearby early in the game, even when using Crane Style from the get go, because yay 1d8 and x1.5 Str mod to damage.
So, yeah, the class is solid. It's a mystical beatstick with a few interesting tricks. Gonna miss the option for poison immunity and such later, but I'm looking forward to style strikes as well.
I mostly dont fight with weapons. I do however have a "jedi" like monk who uses a temple sword and crane style.
Keep in mind that Crane Wing requires you to fight with one hand free, so if you get more of the style feats, its back down to 1x Str mod on damage.
We've been playing with the assumption that it's a free action to put one hand on or off of a weapon you're already holding, so two-handed damage + Crane Wing hasn't been an issue. Eventually the sword is going to be supplanted by higher damage dice unarmed strikes backed up with Dragon Ferocity anyways.
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I think it is assumed that the hand is not "free" if you've used it to make attacks this turn. All events in a round happen simultaneously.
Currently doing a harrow warden master of many styles unchained monk with the peace, cleanliness, and truth vows for extra ki.
None of these are legal. Unchained Monk cannot take any archetypes from the core Monk (which includes Vows).
I think it is assumed that the hand is not "free" if you've used it to make attacks this turn. All events in a round happen simultaneously.
Assumed by who?
None of these are legal. Unchained Monk cannot take any archetypes from the core Monk (which includes Vows).
Vows aren't a monk archetype. I mean, even ninja can take them.
None of these are legal. Unchained Monk cannot take any archetypes from the core Monk (which includes Vows).Vows aren't a monk archetype. I mean, even ninja can take them.
Unclear as to how, since a Ninja doesn't have Still Mind to replace.
Though I admit I was a bit confused. The Vows were listed in the same section as the Qinggong archetype, but not explicitly stated to be. The words "Following the vows is a complete archetype" threw me off before I went back and re-read.
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Unclear as to how, since a Ninja doesn't have Still Mind to replace.
At the top it says:
This section introduces monk vows, which any user of ki can take to increase his ki pool.
So, any user of ki can take it. Unchained monks and ninja are ki users, thus can use monk vows.
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Monk Vows are for Monk's bruh. I see the "any user of ki" language, but it's pretty obvious that's not the intention, especially since you have to trade out Still Mind to use them.
Monk Vows
This section introduces monk vows, which any user of ki can take to increase his ki pool.A monk can discipline his body to hold more ki by upholding the strict tenets of a vow. By adhering to his vow’s tenets, the monk’s ki pool increases by the amount listed in the vow’s description. Every vow comes with a penalty or limitation to offset this increase in ki. A monk can take a vow at any level, but it does not add to his ki pool until he gains a ki pool as a class feature. The ability to take these vows replaces the still mind class feature, even if the monk abandons all his vows.
If a monk knowingly and willingly breaks his vow, his ki pool is reduced to 0 (as if he had spent all of his ki points) and he cannot replenish his pool or use abilities that require ki or a ki pool until he has redeemed himself. Redemption requires a recommitment to his vow accompanied by an atonement spell. After the redemption, the monk’s normal ki pool (without the bonus from the vow) returns. If he upholds the previously broken vow for a full month, his ki pool regains the additional points from taking the vow, and he can decide whether to continue with his vow or forgo his vow without penalty. Once a monk forgoes a vow in this fashion, she can never gain a ki point bonus from that vow.
A monk may have multiple vows. Their effects and increase to his ki pool stack. If a monk violates a vow, he suffers the loss of ki described above; redemption means the monk regains the extra ki from his unbroken vows, but the extra ki from the broken vow does not return until he finishes the month-long commitment (in effect, violating one vow does not have an effect on the other vows once the monk redeems himself).
Of course vows should have been their own ki powers. In fact that's one of my house rules.
Unclear as to how, since a Ninja doesn't have Still Mind to replace.At the top it says:
This section introduces monk vows, which any user of ki can take to increase his ki pool.So, any user of ki can take it. Unchained monks and ninja are ki users, thus can use monk vows.
This should probably be FAQ'd, since IIRC Ninjas didn't exist at the time. And it doesn't make much sense one class has to trade a feature but another does not.
This should probably be FAQ'd, since IIRC Ninjas didn't exist at the time. And it doesn't make much sense one class has to trade a feature but another does not.
I agree. Though it is pretty stupid to write "any user of ki" when there is only one class that has ki users and there are archetypes that trade away still mind, meaning you could be a monk who traded still mind, but since you're still a ki user you can still take monk vows...
Ki points are a very scarce resource by default, but some things you can do with them are pretty cool. So it's up to the player whether he wants to hunt for them. Human FCB, Extra Ki (especially early on), high start Wis and Wis items / spells help and a friendly cleric of Irori with Ki Channel doesn't hurt either. Ki leech was already mentioned by Secret Wizard.
If you don't feel like caring about ki all the time, Quinggong has a few powers for 0 points. Or you focus on one or two ki powers with little cost. Frees up some resources and makes things more simple, but you will lose some fancy toys and probably be somewhat weaker.
(...)
If you don't feel like caring about ki all the time, Quinggong has a few powers for 0 points. Or you focus on one or two ki powers with little cost. Frees up some resources and makes things more simple, but you will lose some fancy toys and probably be somewhat weaker.
Unchained monks can't go Qinggong. They're kind'a similar to begin with anyway.
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I offered a player the chance to rebuild his 13th level monk as an unchained. So he made an unchained version of his monk and had both versions fight to the death to decide which one he would play. The unchained won by a landslide.
He was resistant to the unchained monk at first, but now he really likes it. He immediately noticed a huge difference in how the class performs. However, he still wishes there was any incentive for a high level monk to use a weapon that isn't two-handed.
To be fair, Ki vows are amazingly awful and no one should ever consider taking one of them.
Paizo deserved every little bit of flak they got for that one.
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Unchained monks can't go Qinggong. They're kind'a similar to begin with anyway.(...)
If you don't feel like caring about ki all the time, Quinggong has a few powers for 0 points. Or you focus on one or two ki powers with little cost. Frees up some resources and makes things more simple, but you will lose some fancy toys and probably be somewhat weaker.
They can take Qinggong powers as a ki power though.
None of these are legal. Unchained Monk cannot take any archetypes from the core Monk (which includes Vows).
Correct, it's a house-rule allowance our GMs and I reached. I'm losing a couple ki powers to make it work. Only Harrow Warden isn't really 100% compatible design-wise anyways, and the only thing I'm really swapping out so far is Stunning Fist. Otherwise, I'm a normal unchained monk.
I think it is assumed that the hand is not "free" if you've used it to make attacks this turn. All events in a round happen simultaneously.
Paizo disagrees.
I think it is assumed that the hand is not "free" if you've used it to make attacks this turn. All events in a round happen simultaneously.Paizo disagrees.
That link is just to remove your hand from the two handed weapon. This does not mean you were fighting defensively with a hand free...
As for the Vows and any ki user. I have always been opposed to it, but ancient forum posts were in favour of the ninja or anyone taking them. In spite of not having Still Mind to give up. Dont know how those threads turned out, as I stopped reading/caring at that point :P
I also assume the archtype mixing were house rules. As there is only one legal archtype for an unchained monk (Monk of the mantis).
@ Cyrad, that is an awesome idea. Wish I thought of that when I was offered the change to retrain my CC sensei of the four winds...
* Edit. Very few of the styles let you use a weapon. Which is honestly one of the reasons I like most of them :)
That link is just to remove your hand from the two handed weapon. This does not mean you were fighting defensively with a hand free...I think it is assumed that the hand is not "free" if you've used it to make attacks this turn. All events in a round happen simultaneously.Paizo disagrees.
If you can make AoO's with the weapon in two hands on the same round as you let go of it to cast a spell, then clearly they aren't subscribing to a rigidly 'simultaneous' system.
Swap 'make AoO' with 'reflexively defend yourself' and 'cast a spell' with 'attack', and you're dealing with pretty much the same thing - only it should arguably be much more difficult to work that AoO around casting a spell than to work a reflexive defensive move around making an attack.
So, considering that you can only take free actions on your turn you are essentially trading away the 1.5x Str mod on any Attacks of Opportunity to get the defensive buff from the Crane Style feats. Its a little cheesy, but I would allow it in a game I run. More options are usually a good thing.
^_^
I can see why someone would call cheese, but in this case I see weaving seamlessly between one and two handed weapon as pretty much exactly the kind of thing an amazing martial artist should be capable of. After all, people generally take the Cleric's light shield casting juggle for granted.
I said I would totally allow it, no matter how I feel about relative cheesiness (yum) because it is just like the other caster examples, and it does have a drawback, albeit a small one (the no 1.5x str dmg on AoO).
That being said, I think its cheesy for both classes, but meh.
^_^
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I can see why someone would call cheese, but in this case I see weaving seamlessly between one and two handed weapon as pretty much exactly the kind of thing an amazing martial artist should be capable of. After all, people generally take the Cleric's light shield casting juggle for granted.
If there wasn't a nearly on-point FAQ about doing the same with two-handed weapons, I wouldn't allow them to AOO with the weapon on a turn that they cast. But... unfortunately there is.
I do kinda wanna run a monk of the mantis running around spin kicking everything with sneak attacks.