Party of 4 PCs. No caster levels allowed. 20 point buy. All paizo material allowed. No Leadership or other cohort feats. Third party is allowed but not third party classes and no caster levels or caster-like levels allowed. No Path of War maneuvers.
The campaign is Carrion Crown. We have a month to prepare.
How do we survive?
[edit] To clarify, I'm asking how we can survive, not how we can give up and do something different.
Are Extracts allowed, or no good? How about magic item crafting (if possible to do without caster levels)?
I've seen it done with a Summoner with a Wizard cohort. Your best bet is to play through the first book super cautiously until your builds get a little bit of resiliency and their power increases a little. From there, just make sure you're very well optimized.
Make sure you have a way to raise dead PCs, even if it's just UMD and scrolls. There are a few unfair bits, and if you survive them, you don't want to lose just due to attrition.
Also, this is probably better off in Advice.
does the kineticist count?
Extracts fall under 'caster-like levels'.
Master Craftsman is allowed so we can craft magic items but won't have spells to create some of them. I don't remember too many found items in Carrion Crown.
does the kineticist count?
Kineticist isn't allowed. I have to ask about Paladins without spells.
Cavaliers, spell-less rangers and paladins and co-ordinate teamwork feats.
Brawler and Exemplar Brawler has bardic performance.
investigator(some archetypes trade out extracts)
barbarian/bloodrager(spell eater "trades" spells for healing, or untouchable trades spells out all together)
Paladin with no spells archetypes
ranger no spells archetypes
Slayer
mutation warrior fighter
I think these are the options you'd want to look at
how available is healing?
|
I don't think that any single class is going to be the solution to this challenge. Paladin that trades out spells, Barbarian and some kind of Monk are probably good choices for their strong saves, but copious amounts of consumables are probably what you're going to need to get through this. And of course, a couple characters with high UMD scores.
Got word that spell-less archetypes are okay, So far we're looking at a party of a Fighter, Investigator, Slayer, and Gunslinger. This may change.
Dead. You're dead with that group unless you've specifically read the AP to be prepared for its challenges.
It's a meat-grinder and punchy-punchy-shoot isn't going to survive.
You're going to need AoO effects, and a way to make weapons magical before you can afford them, to name two simple issues.
Ultimate Mercy is a really good idea.
It's not as bad as Anguish makes it sound.
In the first book, you DO need to be willing to run, and you need to do some creative thinking to get around certain defenses and attacks. You also need to be prepared to fix X at a moment's notice, where X is any bad thing that could possibly happen to you.
Get the loot you can, fall back, use that loot to get around the problems you can't deal with.
One thing I'm concerned about is ability score damage and incorporeal creatures. Is there a real way to deal with those without caster levels/extracts? We're using the automatic bonus progression as if magic items are rare so we don't have to worry about the basics but I can't immediately think of ways to deal with ability score damage.
Also ways to deal with will saves beyond Iron Will and our resistance bonus from automatic progression.
The general consensus of the party on how to deal with resurrection was to simply not die.
Alchemy and other consumables are your friends - it may get pricey though e.g. ghost salt weapon blanch will help with incorporeal.
Dead. You're dead with that group unless you've specifically read the AP to be prepared for its challenges.
It's a meat-grinder and punchy-punchy-shoot isn't going to survive.
You're going to need AoO effects, and a way to make weapons magical before you can afford them, to name two simple issues.
I haven't played the AP, but unless they sent incorporeal undead against guys lower than level 3, I fail to see where not having magic items early enough would hurt. Then, any party without a cleric is more or less dead anyway, so that point seems kinda moot.
Barbarians can do full damage to incorporeal with Ghost rager
Ghost Touch is probably a worthwhile enchantment just for quality of life. Of course, that doesn't help you in book one.
Holy Water can probably get you through the first book. Expensive, though. Ghost salt is good for anyone who can put it on their ammo, but it's still expensive.
Your party is cocky. There will be save or dies. Someone will roll a 1. Have a plan to deal with death.
I haven't played the AP, but unless they sent incorporeal undead against guys lower than level 3, I fail to see where not having magic items early enough would hurt.
|
One thing I'm concerned about is ability score damage and incorporeal creatures. Is there a real way to deal with those without caster levels/extracts? We're using the automatic bonus progression as if magic items are rare so we don't have to worry about the basics but I can't immediately think of ways to deal with ability score damage.
Also ways to deal with will saves beyond Iron Will and our resistance bonus from automatic progression.
The general consensus of the party on how to deal with resurrection was to simply not die.
For ability score damage, get someone with heal and ask if you can use the unchained heal skill unlock. It won't really help until later levels, but it'll give each of your party a 1/day 1 hour session to full heal and remove a lot of ability damage. In occult adventures it has a blurb that says you can use holy water to damage haunts, so have everyone in your party carry some of those around. Look up dragon's blood if you want a way to heal some ability damage immediately as it is 60 GP for 1d4 cured(it will also boost your will save a little), and it even removes a negative level 1/week(for 3 of them so 180 GP). I would honestly check out alchemical drugs, and alcohol as those are going to be your only ways to buff yourselves very much.
I actually played trough the first book as a Paladin of Holy Light, with a Monk, Bard and Wizard and Inquisitor.
[spoiler]Its almost ALL incorporeal undead for the first three levels.but I remember there being proton packs somewhere in the dungeon.[/url]
I think we have some third party things for alchemical potions. The settlements are pretty small so buying healing may be hard to come by so we may rely on alchemy. Same goes for resurrections so it would be more beneficial to not die in the first place.
If you can make it through book one, you're fine. As long as you have a way to raise dead.
Ghost Salt weapon blanch all the way.
Make sure to prepare yourselves properly before heading into dungeons.
Preparation includes:
-If you anticipate incorporeal, buy Ghost Salt weapon blanch, and pre-blanch a bunch of arrows. Make sure to have an archer.
-Bring holy water with you by the bucket.
-Once you're done with the first book, it's time to look at the various options for special materials. Cold Iron, Alchemical Silver, and Adamantite is all good and probably neccesary. Adamantite weapons are expensive, so go for arrows for your archer instead.
Don't forget this: you don't *NEED* spells if you're doing the Master Craftsman I-can-forge-it method. (Although with automatic magic item progrssion thingy, you might not need it.) If your barbarian wants that +1 ghost touch earthbreaker, if she's willing to eat the +5 DC for not having Plane Shift, go for it. And name it Ghostbreaker because come on, you have to.
(On a similar note, magic weapons plus ghost touch nets I've heard can ruin an incorporeal's day.)
Ninjas and Monks can get a lot of SLAs. While not technically casters, they do get some stuff.
As to recovery without spells, plan to spend a lot of time in bed recovering HP and Stat Points. Either that or make sure everyone has UMD so that someone can use that wand.
/cevah