| noble peasant |
The feat that prompted the question was the tiefling racial feat Monstrous Mask. It provides a +5 bonus to intimidate against all humanoids. I see that there are a bunch of categories for humanoids so perhaps it's simply talking about those, but is monstrous humanoid a category of humanoid in this context?
| Alzrius |
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The feat that prompted the question was the tiefling racial feat Monstrous Mask. It provides a +5 bonus to intimidate against all humanoids. I see that there are a bunch of categories for humanoids so perhaps it's simply talking about those, but is monstrous humanoid a category of humanoid in this context?
No. Humanoid and Monstrous Humanoid are different creature types; things that specifically affect one of them do not affect the other (unless they flat-out say that they do, or the effect is one that is irrespective of creature types).
"It's like the difference between an elephant and an elephant seal."
| Melkiador |
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/creatureTypes.html
That's where you can see that they are not the same creature type.
Master of Shadows
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The problem is that linguistically it is a reasonable assumption that all monstrous humanoids are humanoids, but not all humanoids are monstrous. By every linguistical standard this would be a clear indicator that Monstrous Humanoid is a subcategory of Humanoid in the same way that Elf is.
But rules wise that isn't the case only because they're listed as separate creature types. And we know that whenever we see the word 'Humanoid' in the rules, it is a reference to the creature type only.
Realistically, there shouldn't be 2 separate creature types, either something is humanoid or it's not. The only reason why we see that separation is because some designer somewhere felt that Monstrous Humanoids, as one of the most prevalent villains should not be affected by hold person until higher level. Even though some campaigns never even step foot into monster country making access to hold person as a balancing factor moot.
| Claxon |
It's more than just hold person. There are other spells that affect humanoids only; charm person, enlarge/reduce person, dominate person. Probably some others that I'm not thinking of.
As to why the distinction is made between humanoids and monstrous humanoids...I'm not sure why, but I also don't think they need to be folded together either.
I don't think the ability (referred to by the OP) needs to be changed either as humanoid refers to the humanoid creature type with a subtype (like humanoid(human) or humanoid (elf)) versus monstrous humanoid. That's a pretty clear distinction that is well understood by people with decent understanding of the rules.
People who know and understand that tieflings and aasimar cannot have enlarge/reduce person used on them (without something like Scion of Humanity) will know that this ability wouldn't work on things that are monstrous humanoids.
| Kazaan |
It's no different than understanding the difference between Humanoid and Animal. By scientific nomenclature, Humans are a sub-set of Animals; we are part of the Animal Kingdom. But rules elements that target Animals cannot be used on Humans. By the same token, Mushrooms and other fungi are not part of the Plant kingdom; but fungus-based creatures are still given the Plant type. Basically, the distinction between Humanoid and Monstrous Humanoid is the same as the distinction between Java and Javascript which share the same distinction as Car and Carpet.