What creatures of any HD are good to make a clone of, if you are playing a wizard? What creatures have lots of spell-like abilities that give them utility, but are worth making a clone of at half the HD?
Any genie that can cast Wish once per day?
I advise you not to try to optimise Simulacrum as your GM will not be happy.
Have they ever clarified this spell on the boards here?
The thing is so vague that you have to have the dm adjudicate things. Since they removed the "piece" of the creature requirement, it seems like you can do anything just about.
Including the Tarrasque. Or you BBEG opponent. You can simulacrum him without having met him and ask all kinds of questions.
Of course that is stupid, but it's not like the spell indicates you can't. Most dm's would 86 that for good reason.
What is more interesting to me is you could simulacrum something that could conceivably exist.
Like a gynosphinx Paladin with the half-celestial template or something.
Or a sorcerer named Fred who just happens to have the utility spells you always wanted but couldn't be bothered to learn.
Simulacrum a pugwampi and make it invisible.
sunbeam wrote: Have they ever clarified this spell on the boards here? I don't think so. The GM is supposed to use 'common sense' to remove abilities that don't seem appropriate for a half-hit dice version of the creature.
This thread should be retitled..
Good Reasons to Ban The Simulacra Family of Spells.
Yeah, it's extremely open ended. I'm probably just going to switch it out for something else, casters are good enough without it :P
People have been begging Paizo to errata the simulacrum spell since Pathfinder was still in the playtesting stage -- even some of the most rabid fanboys have started threads specifically for that purpose. Paizo has consistently refused to do so.
Kirth Gersen wrote: People have been begging Paizo to errata the simulacrum spell since Pathfinder was still in the playtesting stage -- even some of the most rabid fanboys have started threads specifically for that purpose. Paizo has consistently refused to do so. I don't think they need to. I'm of the opinion that I can tie my shoelaces without waiting for Paizo approval to do so.
There are GMs perfectly happy with the spells as they are. Other GMs like PFS, simply ban it. Others like myself, modify it as needed on a campaign by campaign basis. Freedom of Choice.
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LazarX wrote: Kirth Gersen wrote: People have been begging Paizo to errata the simulacrum spell since Pathfinder was still in the playtesting stage -- even some of the most rabid fanboys have started threads specifically for that purpose. Paizo has consistently refused to do so. I don't think they need to. I'm of the opinion that I can tie my shoelaces without waiting for Paizo approval to do so.
There are GMs perfectly happy with the spells as they are. Other GMs like PFS, simply ban it. Others like myself, modify it as needed on a campaign by campaign basis. Freedom of Choice. Following this design philosophy is a good way to make the game unfriendly to new players/GMs and groups who do not have a bunch of experienced experts to guide them through it. You'd think that they'd want to at least include a sidebar alerting GMs to the issues the spell might cause and ways they might want to help control those issues. Maybe the lack of that information is a deliberate form of gatekeeping, but it's a decision I continue to be surprised that a business intentionally makes since it limits their playerbase. Note that this doesn't just apply to the Simulacrum spell, it shows up in lots of other areas of the game.
To the OP, if you want a list of how crazy you can get with the spell, check out the Standard Level 20 Wizard thread for some zaniness.
Assuming you just got this spell and haven't done anything to increase your caster level you get to start at 26HD.
I like the Pleoroma Aeon at 24 HD. It has some really good spells and abilities and its flavor is just awesome.
Solar is a classic "Big Angel Dude" and pretty effective.
If you just want a colossal monster to derp around there's the Thunder Behemoth at 25 hd.
There's Drakainia at 25hd. She has mythic tiers so this one can get messier but shes super awesome.
If you try raising your caster level at all you can basically make anything you want and to be honest it doesn't really matter what you make because it will be strong.
LazarX wrote: Other GMs like PFS, simply ban it. Yeah this is nonsense the spell is perfectly legal.
Constructs. Constructs make for great simulacra: (almost) all of the advantages at a fraction of the costs.
the hard part is rebuilding. dragons are the easiest to look at. I used vortex dragon and started with 29HD one. Than looked at 15HD. it looses a lot of spell ability at 29 but little at 15. But how do you rebuild it, I dont know. should it have more spells? AC? size should be huge though.
Caedwyr wrote: LazarX wrote: Kirth Gersen wrote: People have been begging Paizo to errata the simulacrum spell since Pathfinder was still in the playtesting stage -- even some of the most rabid fanboys have started threads specifically for that purpose. Paizo has consistently refused to do so. I don't think they need to. I'm of the opinion that I can tie my shoelaces without waiting for Paizo approval to do so.
There are GMs perfectly happy with the spells as they are. Other GMs like PFS, simply ban it. Others like myself, modify it as needed on a campaign by campaign basis. Freedom of Choice. Following this design philosophy is a good way to make the game unfriendly to new players/GMs and groups who do not have a bunch of experienced experts to guide them through it. You'd think that they'd want to at least include a sidebar alerting GMs to the issues the spell might cause and ways they might want to help control those issues. Maybe the lack of that information is a deliberate form of gatekeeping, but it's a decision I continue to be surprised that a business intentionally makes since it limits their playerbase. Note that this doesn't just apply to the Simulacrum spell, it shows up in lots of other areas of the game.
To the OP, if you want a list of how crazy you can get with the spell, check out the Standard Level 20 Wizard thread for some zaniness. It isn't the new players and groups which are the problem.. It's the veterans with system mastery that are far more likely to abuse spells like this because of their obscurity. How many new players are going to know about Blood Money unless they buy the one setting sourcebook it appears in, or are told of it by a senior player or judge.
If you were going to put in a sidebar in every spell that could be abused in this game, you'd have a book of nothing BUT sidebars. It's impractical to expect GM's to wait on Paizo to hold their hands on every single possible pothole in this game when it's far more practical to teach them to think for themselves.
Sorry, I dont consider anyone dealing with spells of that level to be "new". And if your a new GM who has older players running all over you, I would advise to talk it out or find new players.
Sim spell is very open ended yes but I think the implications of its power level are very clear. Of course this is also just my opinion and I am not saying that those that do not like it are wrong either.
outsiders and dragons are usually pretty good for this. It depends on what you are looking to do with it.
Was tired when posted above. I consider myself an experienced GM. This spell confused me though. Here be one of the problem. Using my example above. How do you rebuild a vortex dragon with this spell. I looked at both the 29 and 15 HD ones. I don't think it should have cull casting as a 29 but seems loss to much if use the 15HD example. I have read threads in this subject for years now and the one thing that remains the same is, you can't get 6 GMs to agree what the finally build looks like. What does the creature loose by losing half it's HD.
Just my two cents
LazarX wrote: This thread should be retitled..
Good Reasons to Ban The Simulacra Family of Spells.
So in your opinion simulacrum doesn't need to be fixed, BUT it needs to be banned
LazarX wrote:
It isn't the new players and groups which are the problem.. It's the veterans with system mastery that are far more likely to abuse spells like this because of their obscurity.
Oh, so it is not the broken spell itself that is the problem, it is the player learning about the spell and using it that is the problem.
So your advice to new players is to intentionally not learn anything about pathfinder. Don't open the books, don't look at spells, because when you learn a lot, YOU become the problem
I think there needs to be a balance between GM and Players with this spell.
If one side abuses it, both sides abuse it. Communication about how to use them to advance the story line is key.
Personally, its my favorite spell.
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