Too many house rules and you may be better off writing a new game. That's fine, but you need to commit to it, like Kirth. :)
I'm planning on doing that, bu I have to wait 'till my marriage to do that. :)
Too many house rules and you may be better off writing a new game. That's fine, but you need to commit to it, like Kirth. :)I'm planning on doing that, bu I have to wait 'till my marriage to do that. :)
It's a fine choice to make, but whenever I start to cross over that line myself I have to ponder: why start with Pathfinder? What is is about Pathfinder that I enjoy most? And is that actually coming across in the new, derivative rule set I'm making.
At that point I almost always scale it back. It turns out that most of my biggest grievances can be fixed with self-contained solutions (you can see some of these here if you're interested).
So I end up with rules that are very much in the spirit of this thread: Minor, and which address something that bothers me (and only that, if possible).
Spells DC = 10 + 1/2 Caster level + Spell level
So, the purpose of this is to... save casters money on headbands? I'm failing to see any other rationale.
Sure, it makes them slightly weaker at very low levels, but when you reach higher levels, the DCs will be the same as they are without this rule, except without the need to buy a stat-boosting item to keep up.
I have a list/document I've been trying to organize fully.
Minor things mixed with unchained rules and clarifications. I'm still poking around with one shots to get a good idea of what are going to be my universal house rules and what are going to be my 'by campaign' house rules.
Spells DC = 10 + 1/2 Caster level + Spell level
I've actually been dying to try out a similar idea: spell DC's = 10 + 1/2 caster level (min 1) + caster ability mod
The rationale is: 1) that it's just plain easier. Who cares what spell level it is, one DC for all your spells. 2) it reflects that a 20th level archmage has cast grease a million times and he's just plain better at it now. 3) As an added bonus, it eliminates the need for Heighten Spell. I don't really like the metamagic feats as feats much and this strikes one off the list for me.
The obvious concern is that it makes high-level caster's low-level spells more powerful. Normally, a 10th level, 16 Intelligence wizard casts a grease spell with a Reflex save DC of 10 + 1 (spell level) + 3 (caster stat bonus) = 14. With this house rule, the same wizard casts the spell with a Reflex DC of 10 + 5 (½ CL) + 3 (caster stat bonus) = 18. This gives casters a very "unneeded" power boost and it could exacerbate "option paralysis" with more solid choices in combat. I just like the idea that a practiced caster's spells are just better than a novice's. And I love the simpler one-number-fits-all thing.
Haven't tried it out yet, though.
We could go back to 1st edition style, and just make the save DC for all spells be 17. Regardless of spell level, caster level, casting stat, or anything else.
I forgot te "min. 1" so it's 10 + 1/2 Caster Level (Min. 1) + Spell level.
@Kirth Gersen: We just thought it was a good idea and has more sense to use 1/2 caster level than a stat bonus. It's barely the same, and we feel great with it.
@Wildebob: I know what do you mean, but it feel a little high DC having 1/2 caster level and the caster ability mod. We played with "10 + 1/2 caster level + spell level + caster ability mod" everyone wanted a Cloak of Resistance ASAP. However, it was worth a try. Maybe without the spell level (as you say) it's not that hight.
1/2 caster level is better than stat bonus, it keeps it standardized relative to the caster and fits right in with my other houserules that minimize the impact of stats in character power.
Do you do the same thing with weapon damage (e.g., die + character level, rather than die + Str modifier)? What about weapon attacks? Does a fighter get 1d20 + BAB + 1/2 level (= BAB + 1.5x level)?
1/2 caster level is better than stat bonus, it keeps it standardized relative to the caster and fits right in with my other houserules that minimize the impact of stats in character power.Do you do the same thing with weapon damage (e.g., die + character level, rather than die + Str modifier)? What about weapon attacks? Does a fighter get 1d20 + BAB + 1/2 level (= BAB + 1.5x level)?
Honestly, in terms of what I was going for with the caster thing, that's not a bad idea. Fighters DO need a boost to make them the most effective warriors and that could do the trick. Again, I recognize those as pretty colossal changes though, and we'd be moving into the realm of a new game system (or iteration thereof).
(And did you mean "=1d20 + 1.5 x level"?)
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Is allowing the Domain spells instead of heal/inflict at the choice of the player? Or is it any cleric, and if you want the heal spells, you need the Heal Domain?
I'm asking because it may be something I put forward to my gaming group, and was wondering if its 'must be selected at character creation' type of thing.
It is all clerics. This grants more versatility in that all domain spells can be spontaneously cast. If a cleric wants to spontaneously cast heal/inflict, then they would need to have access to the Heal domain. Any cleric can, of course, choose to memorize heal/inflict spells if they so choose.
What happens when your constitution modifier is at least as high as the size of your HD (e.g., 22 constitution for a d6 HD class)?
I should have clarified this rule with, "unless you've rolled maximum HP."
- To make my characters less squishy early on, I like to give PCs hp = their full Con score at 1st level only in place of the hit die and Con mod. (ex. A 16 Con fighter starts with 16 hp.) At each subsequent level, I like what someone else said upthread that you can re-roll any number lower than your Con mod. I think I'll borrow that.
- I've also seen one before that I've liked: PC's start with 1 rank in EVERY class skill at 1st level and they can then spend their bonus Intelligence ranks on cross-class skills. My rationale is that, if it's central enough to the role of a class to just be naturally better at it (+3 class bonus) then they're clearly going to have some experience doing it. I guess someone could choose to go against type and have a ranger who can't swim, but we can address that if it comes up. This helps the 2+Int classes out where it's needed while still rewarding the high-skill classes like rogues and bards. (Ranks come as normal after 1st.)
- I also allow players to buy weapon and armor proficiencies with skill points. Taking a proficiency feat gives you proficiency for the whole category. (i.e. axes, bows, hammers, light armor, etc.) I just think a feat is too expensive and the cost could preclude some cool character ideas.
For my next campaign I will likely also let everyone take a couple of background skills at first level (per unchained) so everyone will have a couple of skills that they wouldn't otherwise have (professions, perform etc)
Why not just use background skills as written? People likely have some hobbies while they aren't adventuring.
I use a homebrew method to resolve chases. I divide a creature/character's speed by 5 to get a modifier to add to a d20 roll. Chases then become opposed rolls.
Example: Movement 30 would be +6 added to 1d20.
So somebody with 10' movement beats somebody with 60' movement 11% of the time?
A part of you have already written we use, since 3.5:
1.- Spells DC = 10 + 1/2 Caster level + Spell level
While this has some good points on the higher levels, it makes low level casters even worse than they already are. I would only consider this for a game starting at mid-levels.
HP: Roll 1d4, add the difference (2 for d6 classes, 4 for d8, 6 for d10, 8 for barbarians).
Spontaneous full casters such as Sorcerer and Oracle progress their spells at the same rate as prepared casters, rather than being delayed a level behind. So basically they treat their spells known and spells per day as if they're a level higher than they actually are. We also don't use the stupid "metamagic makes your spells take a full round to cast" rule.
Skills: Everyone gets 2 more than listed.
Gear: We have a homebrew "Heroic Distinctions" system that grants a scaling Deflection AC, Natural AC, and Saves boost and bonuses the characters can choose starting at level 5, from things like +2 to a stat, a bonus to magical damage, bonuses with weapons or armor, boosts to a skill, and so forth. These are considered magical effects (go away in an antimagic field, etc.) and don't stack with equipment, so it reduces the reliance on the Big Six a little.
No XP. Level up as the adventure says, or when the DM says if we're running homebrew.
Stats: Everyone rolls arrays at creation, the DM collects them all up, discards any s/he doesn't like, and lets the players pick between the rest.
There's more but these are the basic ones.
I had to redefine it as an enhancement bonus to the person as some haters started harping on how deflection is not how magic armor or bracers work. Otherwise, same thing every even level. No minimum bonus for weapons or armor.
Extra skills, feat, item proficiency, or equipment is only from backstory or other rules such as mutations.
I have 6-7 pages of houserules, but here's a few I like and think apply here (IE not including some of the more complex ones and alterations to various classes).
The existing rules for Invisibility Vs Perception ignore the role of senses other than sight in perception, so the penalties to perception DC/bonus to stealth are ignored unless the character is also silenced/ethereal/whatever. Instead it's a -4 penalty to the perception DC to become aware of an invisible creature (must beat DC by 20 to pinpoint their square). Invisible attackers get a +2 to attack rolls and their opponents lose Dex to AC against them. Normal rules for total concealment apply.
Natural Healing: The HP gained form natural healing (1 per level for a night of rest) completely changes the dynamic of the game for a low level party without a healer, and can grind things to a halt. I don't like this. Instead characters who rest a night roll their hit dice + Con Mod for each level. So a 2nd level Fighter with a CON of 14 would recover 2d10+4 HP after a night of rest.
Critical hits trigger Sneak Attack even if the target is not flat footed or flanked.
Saves: All saves progress at a rate of 1/2 per level, Good saves get a bonus of +2 (good save bonuses from multiple classes do not stack).
Identifying magic items: I use the Beginner's Box version of this. Just using detect magic to study the object up close lets you know its properties. Spellcraft is only needed for things like Artifacts and Cursed items.
Skills: I combine a few skills, Climb + Swim = Athletics, Knowledge Arcana + Spellcraft = Knowledge Spellcraft, Stealth + Sleight of Hand = Stealth, Perception + Appraise = Perception. A jump check can be made using either Athletics or Acrobatics, and for every 5 ranks in Athletics your base speed increases by 5.
In the interests of time st the table I just tell players what items are worth rather than requiring an appraise check.
Armor: The armor check penalties are too steep IMO. They're cut in half if you are proficient with the armor. There's no MAX DEX bonus in armor (the fighter Armor training simply gives a bonus to AC in armor). Monks can use armors that have a check penalty of 0 without losing their class features.
Many feat chains automatically upgrade as you level and meet the prerequisites for the next feat in the chain, this includes the obvious Improved/Greated type feats and some of the other thematically linked feats.
Combat Expertise has a new option: allowing you to reduce your AC by 1 to increase your CMB by 1 (with the same scaling as the current version). The INT 13 prereq is removed from the feat as well as from any feat that has CE as a prereq.
All other ability score prerequisites for feats are reduced by 2.
A few of them...
All divine spellcasting is spontan. Known = Spell pr.day.You only cast/choose spells that fits the nature of your god.
HP are divided in wounds and vigorpoints(50/50). You get fastheal 1, when out of battle(resting) - but only for vigorpoint. No we are not going back to the inn...
Ftr and Rog gets one hero points (+8 before a roll or reroll with +4 1/pr.day) at the levels 2/6/10/14/18.
We have two pages!
All characters gain Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
Deadly Agility from Dreamscarred Press is available.
Natural Healing: The HP gained form natural healing (1 per level for a night of rest) completely changes the dynamic of the game for a low level party without a healer, and can grind things to a halt. I don't like this. Instead characters who rest a night roll their hit dice + Con Mod for each level. So a 2nd level Fighter with a CON of 14 would recover 2d10+4 HP after a night of rest.
I love this one.
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I'm fiddling with with something after thinking about a different house rule.
What if the heal skill allowed you to spend five minutes to heal someone for your heal check in the form of temporary hit points?
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Minor HP rule (made to "humanise" high level characters and diminish reliance on magical healing)
Instead of representing connecting blows, Hit Points represent tiring parries, narrow escapes, minor injuries, favourable environment, dumb luck and other “close calls”.
Next time I GM, a successful heal check of 15 or better will upgrade someone from dying to comatose.
The feat surgery adds 4 to healing from the skill or spell. If heal check is 15 or better they get a new save, +4, against any condition, such as poisoned, blind, deaf, or something. The bonus becomes +8 in a hospital or clinic, meaning ideal conditions. This also allows attaching prosthetic magic items or repairing Flesh Golems.
With Ninja in the Rye's Natural healing, the game should be much more reasonable.
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You might look at Evil Lincoln's "stress-strain" house rule here on the boards. It's very similar to that, but it's hugely popular and it's been through a lot of playtesting, according to him. I am a big fan, though I've yet to have the chance to try it myself.
Lots of great ideas in this thread! I don't run often, especially outside of PFS, but I have a document of houserules ready for when I do.
The only two I can think of off the top of my head that haven't been mentioned are from my current GM for Way of the Wicked:
* An extra 2 skill points per level, but they can only be spent in knowledge skills, or to learn languages. It's a way to represent characters learning from the things they actually do during the adventure. Might allow Profession/Craft/Perform as well.
* I hadn't heard of this method of HP before, but it's interesting. We roll two dice for each level (mostly d8s for our classes) and we can choose one of them. If we don't like either, we can also "chase the rabbit" and roll a third die, but if we do we have to use the third roll. Supposedly it usually ends up slightly above average, though I know the monk in our party had a few levels of less-than-stellar rolls. Think she caught back up though.
I have my own ideas on ability scores that I tried during Dragon's Demand. I wanted a way to help MAD classes without also boosting SAD ones. I thought about giving 3-4 different stat arrays, with higher point-buy values for arrays with more spread-out stats, but I decided it was easier to just use a high PB value (25) and restrict post-racial stats to 18 or lower, and restrict/eliminate bonus points for dump stats.
I allow counterspelling as an immediate action, provided you have either the spell in question or (Greater) Dispel Magic prepared/in your spells known. With Improved Counterspell, you can do it with any spell of the same school that's the same level or higher.
Charisma to Will instead of Wisdom. Makes Charisma more than just a social stat. Good for those of us who are confused as to how to make Charisma penalties matter. Wisdom is still important for Perception and Sense Motive, so there's not too much reason to dump it.
I'm thinking about doing the same, but also making Initiative go with Wisdom. It makes it still relevant, and also makes it easier to allow Dex to damage without jumping through the hoops.
Charisma to Will instead of Wisdom. Makes Charisma more than just a social stat. Good for those of us who are confused as to how to make Charisma penalties matter. Wisdom is still important for Perception and Sense Motive, so there's not too much reason to dump it.I'm thinking about doing the same, but also making Initiative go with Wisdom. It makes it still relevant, and also makes it easier to allow Dex to damage without jumping through the hoops.
Try letting them use either or for Init in case your ranged fighter starts going last every time.
Combat Maneuvers do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Simple. Stupid. Vastly effective at adding back an element to the game largely ignored because of the entry requirements.
To some extent I value decreasing the importance of mental stats altogether. Each of them should have their uses but not be so vital. It just makes classes that use the stat for everything much more MAD when some stats are more vital.
Since I started using the consolidated skill list from Unchained I just got rid of INT for skills per level. It already is important for over half the skills on the consolidated list, even taking over for Use Magic device and it still gives you languages. It is super useful so I didn't need classes wrecked by not having a bonus in it.
Wis is vital for perception and Will which I'm okay with despite that not always making sense. It does stop making sense sometimes so I just patched in a feat that lets you use Charisma for Will. I thought about making it give a bonus ability to compensate for the tax but Will being only for perceptions only makes it a little too useless.
Charisma can get a buff by emphasizing relationships as a means to maintain contacts, cohorts and soon organizations
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I've ruled that detect magic is touch only. Avoids weirdness like using a 0 level spell to overcome a 2nd level spell like invisibility.
And a few more here
If that's your blog, you should credit the Diplomacy This Old Rule section to Rich Burlew at Giant in the Playground.
Hmm, I thought I called that out someplace, might have gotten lost in the last round of edits. Thanks for noticing.
Reading this thread gave me some ideas.
- Wisdom now used to Initiative, instead of Dexterity.
- Charisma now is used to Will Saves, instead of Wisdom.
Now Dexterity is still good but not that much.
And to help to solve the SAD of the 9th level casters, something like this:
Wizards: To cast a spell, a Wizard must have a Wisdom score of 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Wizard spell is 10 + the spell's level + the Wizard's Intelligence modifier.
Clerics or Druids: To cast a spell, a Cleric/Druid must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Wizard spell is 10 + the spell's level + the Wizard's Wisdom modifier.
So... basically what the Favored Soul and some of the other later-developed casters in 3.5 had to do.
Basicly a feat tax rebate. Any feat that changes the ability that applies to a type of save or is a prerequisite, can be justified by backstory.
I have 2 questions. Max of 3 or 5?
How do I phrase this to include the to hit bonus for ranged, the AC bonus, normally dex, that could be wisdom, ect.
So... basically what the Favored Soul and some of the other later-developed casters in 3.5 had to do.
Exactly, but only to the 9th level casters. 6th and lesser didn't need to change.
I've ruled that detect magic is touch only. Avoids weirdness like using a 0 level spell to overcome a 2nd level spell like invisibility.
And a few more here
Detect magic can only find invisible people that don't move - it takes three rounds to pinpoint an aura. Even then, it would just be pinpointing - they'd still have the miss chance. Not so big a concern for me.
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Detect Magic was the only recourse a team of 3-4th level characters had in one game I ran, as the opponent was invisible and incorporeal. They kept the cone trained on the creature, so I gave them the information on the third round even if it had moved. It was still in the area, so I counted it rather than resetting the timer.
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Mine:
Classes: Unchained versions of barbarian, monk, rogue and summoner are mandatory.
Classes: Unchained rogues - for the purposes of which skill unlocks the rogue has, calculate the unchained rogue's effective ranks as follows: rogue level + actual skill ranks = effective ranks (example: a 5th level rogue with 5 ranks in stealth can use the 10 ranks skill unlocks power for stealth, if he picked stealth as part of his rogue's edge class feature)
Classes: Unchained fighter - fighters and fighters only get a Stamina Pool via Combat Stamina feat (free at 1st level); on top of Combat Stamina for free at 1st, fighters also receive Endurance as bonus feat at 3rd, Toughness at 5th, Diehard at 7th, Extra Stamina at 9th and Push the Limit at 11th. Eldritch Knights and Ulfen Guards can count their levels as fighter levels for the purposes of calculating their total Stamina Pool, but must have at least one level of fighter to gain the Combat Stamina feat in the first place (more details available upon demand, if applicable to your character).
Starting Gold: maximum gold for your class.
Skills: Unchained Background Skills in effect --> 2 additional skill points per level but they must be used on one of the following skills:
Appraise
Artistry
(NEW)
Craft
Handle Animal
Knowledge (engineering)
Knowledge (geography)
Knowledge (history)
Knowledge (nobility)
Linguistics
Lore
(NEW)
Perform
Profession
Sleight of Hand
Skills: Expanded skill uses in effect (see unchained p.51-53; new uses/options for Craft, Perform and Profession)
Skills: Alternate Crafting Rules in effect (see unchained p.72-76) with the following modification - craft roll determines progress per day not item complexity (only thing you use complexity for is to figure out min DC). Also, masterwork items now cost less or more, depending on their complexity, as follows: (examples provided below; please consult unchained book for specific items)
Extremely simple (no MW component available)
Simple - 75gp (MW Sling)
Normal - 150gp (MW Dagger)
Complex - 300gp (MW Longsword)
Intricate - 600gp (MW Bastard Sword)
Very intricate - 1200gp (MW Siege Weapons)
Extremely intricate - 2400gp (MW Cannon)
Combat:
Shield bash: the bashing weapon property stacks with the spiked shield weapon die increase; for instance, a heavy shield with the bashing property does 1d8 damage and a spiked heavy shield with the bashing property does 2d6 damage.
Improved Familiar: those can benefit from archetypes that depend on the "Speak with Animal of its Kind" familiar feature (in essence, this class feature is never considered lost by taking the Improved Familiar feat).
Languages: Whenever the Common tongue is listed as a race's starting language (or among the race's available choices for starting languages or bonus languages), you can substitute for Common any of the other widely used human languages listed in your race description in Inner Sea World Guide (for example, an elf who was born and raised in Varisia might choose Varisian as one of the bonus languages she knows due to a high Intelligence score, or a gnome raised in an isolated monastery in Jalmeray might speak Vudrani as his native tongue rather than Common). In these cases, Common always remains an option to choose at a later date if you wish.
Magic:
Assume Spell-Like Abilities (SLA) have V and S components and that a creature casting them clearly appears to do so; and
If a creature casts a *spell* (not SLA) that lacks a component (either because it doesn't have any or that it/they has/have been hidden via Still Spell, Silent Spell or Eschew Material), then the Spellcraft is at -2 per component missing. A perception check is still required to see that a spell is being cast, with same negative mods (-2 per missing component). For example, a still, silent, and eschewed spell can be noticed by Perception check with a -6 penalty; if it's noticed, then Spellcraft to identify is also at -6.