Minor Houserules you feel are an improvement to the game


Homebrew and House Rules

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Like being a cyclops, they cannot tell how far. Is that -4 to hit?


Master Alchemist allows you to make multiple doses of any alchemical item, not just poisons.


I like to grant unusual powers instead of gear and treasure. At mid to high levels I will give certain thematic casters a particular 1st level spell as a cantrip. I granted an archaeologist bard at my table spell combat.

I don't love critical failure in combat or saves; I've gone back and forth on this.

I think this is supported by the rules but I tend to be somewhat exponential about skill checks. A 40 and you do something terribly impressive.

If I don't want to up the action economy by adding minions to a certain combat, I will give certain creatures or combatants two initiatives, one at its bonus, one at -5 its bonus.


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Strength to hit never made sense to me. It should be added to damage, but Dexterity should determine accuracy even for melee. So anyway, I've been experimenting with doing it that way. I have to say, while it makes way more sense, its a kick in the balls to melee types, forcing them to increase another stat. Letting them do 25 point builds balances it out pretty well though.

A new thing I'm about to try out, due to a post I read earlier today, is to allow full attacks with your move, taken at any point in your move. It just doesn't make sense to me that moving your legs would stop you from swinging your arms. Double moves will get one attack. I feel like, not only does it make more sense, but the melee types could maybe use a little boost anyway. They're always getting shown up by the casters.


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
I will give certain thematic casters a particular 1st level spell as a cantrip.

This would make a great feat. Prerequisites maybe being 12th or 14th level caster and spell focus in the school the chosen spell belongs to


jimibones83 wrote:
Strength to hit never made sense to me. It should be added to damage, but Dexterity should determine accuracy even for melee. So anyway, I've been experimenting with doing it that way. I have to say, while it makes way more sense, its a kick in the balls to melee types, forcing them to increase another stat. Letting them do 25 point builds balances it out pretty well though.

"Western melee weapons are so heavy and bulky that fighting with them isn't a matter of aiming were it hurt the must, but simply overpowering the enemy and bashing him with you big club."

While this vision of medieval combat is totally wrong, it was really popular in the past decades, and may explain why Strength-to-hit exist in D&D/PF.
The fact that changing the default to-hit attribute is a big game-changer, and may upset the balance of martial combat may explain why it hasn't been changed in PF.


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Str-to-Hit makes sense because the stronger you are, the faster you can swing your blade, making it harder for your opponents to avoid the attack. You can also lift and swing your weapon more easily, which boosts accuracy.

And keep in mind that in PF, Dexterity is much more about balance, reflexes and precision than about speed. You don't get to move faster just because you have high Dex.


In a previous version, weapons like a fencing foil would operate from dex. rather than strength. Making foils and shivs function as both dex. based for hit and damage will support their flavor and utility for rogues and musketeers.

Sovereign Court

Lemmy wrote:
Str-to-Hit makes sense because the stronger you are, the faster you can swing your blade, making it harder for your opponents to avoid the attack. You can also lift and swing your weapon more easily, which boosts accuracy.

Yes a lot of people have never held a real metal sword in their hands for a few minutes... even a woodden sword or bo stick (practicing with dummies) gets your arm numb real fast. The stronger you are, the longer you can last. The typical adventurer with positive STR mod probably has hard muscles (maybe not entirely visible at STR 12, but it's 'showing'), and I'd argue that anyone with STR 14+ has rock hard muscles (whether or not they look 'cut' like modern gym dudes is another debate, but the STR and muscles are there) and probably doesn't have to worry about how long he'll swing that sword. I mean, apes are incredibly strong but some of them look like they've been on a bad beach vacation their whole life... LOL


Keep in mind that "to hit" is also the ability to inflict damage, which is where the STR-to-hit comes into play. You hit harder, and therefore are more likely to cause damage. It adds to your chances in melee.

It's the "STR or DEX" sometimes that doesn't make sense when really it's both - accuracy and the ability to get damage through.

I'm far more liberal in allowing DEX-to-damage for certain melee weapons like the rapier than vanilla PF allows.


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STR to hit also represents the ability to penetrate armor, knock a shield aside or push past a parry in the abstraction of PF AC and to hit rules.


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This discussion makes me wonder why you don't add STR to your AC, to Parry things that otherwise would break your guard.

Sovereign Court

Metal Sonic wrote:
This discussion makes me wonder why you don't add STR to your AC, to Parry things that otherwise would break your guard.

I've also made that argument before, to try to show the DEX or CHA to EVERYTHING camps that their logic was a bit off... ;)

PS: after a mere 12-week powerlifting intro anyone can see how hard their previously 'rubbery' muscles can get... now for action men* jumping around cliffs in armor in the wilderness and underground, i.e. fighters and martials, a case could be made that the actual hardness of your muscle does in fact produces a natural bonus to AC. How else do horse animal companions get a nat AC boost as they get "stronger"?

*Edit: the term 'action men' includes women, for the purposes of this conversation! :)

Grand Lodge

Metal Sonic wrote:
This discussion makes me wonder why you don't add STR to your AC, to Parry things that otherwise would break your guard.

This would be an interesting idea to add to fighters, maybe a cool class feature.


I got tired of strength being the lame duck of the ability scores, but I got equally annoyed by the arguments of what should be done to make it better. In the end, I just removed it entirely and now only have five ability scores: Agility, Toughness, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. I'm not sure it counts as a "minor house rule" though, since I had to do a fair amount of work to adjust everything in the game that references Strength.


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Sorcerers get their first bloodline spell at 2, not 3.


Raltus wrote:
This would be an interesting idea to add to fighters, maybe a cool class feature.

Or a change in the rules. You have the Parry and Dodge defense stats (Like Mutants & Masterminds 3). Your "Parry AC" is 10 + STR + Other Mods, and the "Dodge AC" is 10 + DEX + Other Mods.

Maybe it can work really good.

Sovereign Court

Raltus wrote:
Metal Sonic wrote:
This discussion makes me wonder why you don't add STR to your AC, to Parry things that otherwise would break your guard.
This would be an interesting idea to add to fighters, maybe a cool class feature.

I agree - maybe best as part of a fighter-only feat chain. It's on the "a bit too good" side to qualify for a single feat or class feature.

Liberty's Edge

Giovanni Henriksen wrote:

Low-level characters are too easily killed. Given the amount of time it takes to generate characters we decided that this is a bad thing. So we instituted the following house rule, which our group has been using for several years:

Of course giving everything else more hit points means that combat tends to last a bit longer (a lot longer at low levels).

An alternate solution would be Reserve Points, as seen here;

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/reservePoints.htm

- - - - - -

My own house rule is to take the Bloodline and Gestalt mutators, and change the overall progression.

Level 1: Pick a single class
Level 2: Pick a single class
Level 3: Pick a single class and a Bloodline (not required if you already have the Bloodline class feature)
Level 4: Pick a single class
Level 5: Pick two classes to Gestalt
Level 6: Pick a single class, Bloodline also progresses
Level 7: Pick a single class
Level 8: Pick a single class
Level 9: Pick a single class, Bloodline also progresses
Level 10: Pick two classes to Gestalt
Level 11: Pick a single class
Level 12: Pick a single class, Bloodline also progresses
Level 13: Pick a single class
Level 14: Pick a single class
Level 15: Pick two classes to Gestalt, Bloodline also progresses
Level 16: Pick a single class
Level 17: Pick a single class
Level 18: Pick a single class, Bloodline also progresses
Level 19: Pick a single class
Level 20: Pick two classes to Gestalt

By having a Bloodline every three levels and a Gestalt every five levels, this encourages players to experiment with unique builds without making things too overpowered it burdening newcomers with too many choices at the beginning of things.


Lemmy wrote:

Str-to-Hit makes sense because the stronger you are, the faster you can swing your blade, making it harder for your opponents to avoid the attack. You can also lift and swing your weapon more easily, which boosts accuracy.

And keep in mind that in PF, Dexterity is much more about balance, reflexes and precision than about speed. You don't get to move faster just because you have high Dex.

That's not true at all. For one, if strength determined speed, then the worlds strongest man would also be the worlds fastest man, but that's nowhere near the truth. Olympic runners are nowhere near as muscular as olympic body builders, not even close.

Hand eye coordination is what determines accuracy. However, a moving target requires good reflexes too, but since that's also determined by dexterity, no further attribute contributes to hit.

Where strength fits is to damage, and possibly as a prerequisite to use two handed weapons.

If you don't believe any of this, get plastered and go play whack-a-mole. Alcohol doesn't affect your strength, but it does affect your dexterity, and you will probably do significantly worse while drunk. Plus, the guy next to you could be twice as strong, but that doesn't mean he will be better at the game. He can inflict more damage when he hits, but he won't necessarily hit more often just because he's stronger.


@Purple Dragon Knight

That justifies a strength prerequisite to wield the weapon, not strength being the ability that determines accuracy. Lose one of your eyes and swing that sword. Your hand eye coordination will plumet, but you will be just as strong. You will he able to swing the sword the same, but hit the target less. That's because dexterity determines accuracy while strength determines ability to swing and damage done.

@Otherwhere

To hit is not also the ability to do damage. To hit is to strike the target, the ability to do damage is to do so with force. Both strength AND dexterity are offensive attributes in reality at all times. The question to me is only, does it screw up the game to house rule it that way. I can't say for sure, as I'm only 3 games into the experiment


QuidEst wrote:
Sorcerers get their first bloodline spell at 2, not 3.

Some of my Leveled Mutations give sorcerers and mutants a bonus spell at first level, often a zero level spell.


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jimibones83 wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

Str-to-Hit makes sense because the stronger you are, the faster you can swing your blade, making it harder for your opponents to avoid the attack. You can also lift and swing your weapon more easily, which boosts accuracy.

And keep in mind that in PF, Dexterity is much more about balance, reflexes and precision than about speed. You don't get to move faster just because you have high Dex.

That's not true at all. For one, if strength determined speed, then the worlds strongest man would also be the worlds fastest man, but that's nowhere near the truth. Olympic runners are nowhere near as muscular as olympic body builders, not even close.

Hand eye coordination is what determines accuracy. However, a moving target requires good reflexes too, but since that's also determined by dexterity, no further attribute contributes to hit.

Where strength fits is to damage, and possibly as a prerequisite to use two handed weapons.

If you don't believe any of this, get plastered and go play whack-a-mole. Alcohol doesn't affect your strength, but it does affect your dexterity, and you will probably do significantly worse while drunk. Plus, the guy next to you could be twice as strong, but that doesn't mean he will be better at the game. He can inflict more damage when he hits, but he won't necessarily hit more often just because he's stronger.

Dexterity determines reaction time, but strength is 100% correlated with actual speed. There's different types of muscle fibers, y'know, some for sustained force and some for bursts of exertion. So when you're drunk, you're just as capable of exerting force, but your coordination and reaction time are utter s@#^ which leads to all the whiffing vs moles.


I actually have tried giving bloodline spells two levels earlier for sorcerers, since they're supposed to be part of the sorcerer's innate nature. So they get their bloodline spells, once a day, at the level where wizards get spells of that level, and then gain another spell of that level and spell slots increase to the normal chart entry the level after that (First level bloodline spell is just an extra spell known at first level, with the normal number of slots). It just seems really weird that a sorcerer whose very body is imbued with elemental fire learns scorching ray at level 5, while a fey sorcerer can learn it at level 4, but has to wait until 5 to learn Hideous Laughter.

I haven't decided whether to give them something else at level 19 to replace the bloodline spell at that level (since they already have it), but I don't know if they NEED something besides the bloodline feat at that level, either.

(Would 1st level bloodline ability at will if normally 3+CHA/day be too much, or too little?)


If otherwise wasn't so ingrained in the game I would love to do what 5th edition did. Sorcerers get exclusive access to metamagic feats. Or at the very least give sorcerers exclusive metamagic feats in exchange for spells known.


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Cerberus Seven wrote:
Dexterity determines reaction time, but strength is 100% correlated with actual speed. There's different types of muscle fibers, y'know, some for sustained force and some for bursts of exertion. So when you're drunk, you're just as capable of exerting force, but your coordination and reaction time are utter s@#^ which leads to all the whiffing vs moles.

Your comment inspired me to do a little research. The following quote was found on a speed training website which also supported your statement.

"The whole process is not very clear but the complex coordination and timing of the motor units and muscles most certainly must be rehearsed at high speeds to implant the correct patterns."

Note:
The site was for running, but I can't imagine the concept would be any different.

The site also went on to explain the importance of flexibility in speed and its need to be constantly maintained. Mind you, both flexibility and coordination fall under Dex.

Hitting a moving target is equal parts coordination and speed. However, since coordination is Dex only, and speed is a combination of the two, hitting a moving target highly favors Dex.


Malwing wrote:
If otherwise wasn't so ingrained in the game I would love to do what 5th edition did. Sorcerers get exclusive access to metamagic feats. Or at the very least give sorcerers exclusive metamagic feats in exchange for spells known.

I think there are lots of things that 5E has done correctly. It's just a shame that 5E and PF are largely incompatible.


You can save someone who is drowning.


jimibones83 wrote:
Cerberus Seven wrote:
Dexterity determines reaction time, but strength is 100% correlated with actual speed. There's different types of muscle fibers, y'know, some for sustained force and some for bursts of exertion. So when you're drunk, you're just as capable of exerting force, but your coordination and reaction time are utter s@#^ which leads to all the whiffing vs moles.

Your comment inspired me to do a little research. The following quote was found on a speed training website which also supported your statement.

"The whole process is not very clear but the complex coordination and timing of the motor units and muscles most certainly must be rehearsed at high speeds to implant the correct patterns."

** spoiler omitted **

The site also went on to explain the importance of flexibility in speed and its need to be constantly maintained. Mind you, both flexibility and coordination fall under Dex.

Hitting a moving target is equal parts coordination and speed. However, since coordination is Dex only, and speed is a combination of the two, hitting a moving target highly favors Dex.

Actually, flexibility has next to nothing to do with Dexterity. Dexterity is explicitly concerned with "agility, reflexes, and balance", as per the CRB. That's a mixture of muscle memory (not actually stored in the muscles), reaction time, and physical sensation that's providing these benefits. Going back to the earlier example you gave, when you're drunk, what is primarily affected? That's right, your nervous system. You're not any weaker physically, just incapable of coordinating your body quite as well. Someone black-out drunk is just as flexible as they would be normally (albeit still more prone to injure themselves due to impaired judgement).

If anything, flexibility is far more about Strength than Dexterity, since it's concerned with the muscles and how far they and the attached ligaments and tendons will allow you to stretch. After all, when you try and drop into a perfect split on the ground, your muscles are what's gonna tear if you're not used to that position, right? It's useful to think of Strength not as merely the raw power in any individual muscle group, but rather how they all work together to deliver sustained effort, sudden force, and range of motion with your body. That's why when you punch someone, it makes a big difference if you pivot with your hips to deliver that extra bit of power to the blow. A strong core will help deliver more 'oomph' to the hit. Similarly, trying to kick someone in a fight is gonna be a lot less likely to succeed if you're not flexible enough to get the balls of your feet up into their face. Somewhat of an odd way to think about Strength based on how Pathfinder normally presents it, but it makes sense when you think about it.

On the topic hitting a target, moving or otherwise, it's actually an amalgamation of factors coming together. There's dexterity (reaction time and precision), strength (speed and force of the blow), and BAB (muscle memory and knowledge of combat). If you have crap reaction time or can't target your opponent's weak spots, they'll have an easier time dodge out of the way. If you can't land any real force behind the blow, they'll be better able to shrug off or deflect the blow. If you're inexperienced as hell, you're gonna be easy to ready and won't know how to react at a moment's notice to a sudden change in the enemy's tactics. Pathfinder simplifies things greatly by rolling one of these factors (Dexterity) into BAB by default. Which is fine, since we're not playing a physics simulator and approximations / shortcuts like this on the way to the actual fun of the game are both useful and sensible.


Cerberus Seven wrote:


Actually, flexibility has next to nothing to do with Dexterity.

Escape Artist disagree with you...


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Arakhor wrote:
Malwing wrote:
If otherwise wasn't so ingrained in the game I would love to do what 5th edition did. Sorcerers get exclusive access to metamagic feats. Or at the very least give sorcerers exclusive metamagic feats in exchange for spells known.
I think there are lots of things that 5E has done correctly. It's just a shame that 5E and PF are largely incompatible.

If you took some of the good parts out of both 4E and 5E and made PF house rules out of them, it'd be a pretty awesome set. Action points and inspiration being one and the same would be freaking sweet. Short rest healing with hit dice would eliminate a lot of issues with healing. Actually combat-worthy at-will spells / cantrips would be nice, no more cross-bow / ray of frost wizard if he doesn't wanna expend a real spell. Bounded stats means less munchkining. Backgrounds would add a lot more flavor than traits do. Full-attacks as standard action would rock and make movement far more worth it. 1/2 level bonus on class skills, up to your total number of ranks in the skill, would make skill checks really interesting.

...y'know, I should start making a list of this stuff. New item for this weekend's plans!


Metal Sonic wrote:
Cerberus Seven wrote:


Actually, flexibility has next to nothing to do with Dexterity.
Escape Artist disagree with you...

And Acrobatics says it makes more sense for the distance of your jump to be based on how well you can balance rather than how strong your legs are. The game isn't perfect.


@Cerberus Man, you're post was too much for me to think about at this hour. As far as I got was flexibility doesn't fall under dexterity. I was considering it to bea requirement of nimbleness, which falls under agility, which is under dexterity. Even if I'm wrong though, you can subtract flexibility from the equation and still need coordination for speed, resulting in the same argument being true.

I'll read your post again tomorrow for all I couldn't try to comprehend at this ungodly hour


I don't think flexibility falls under constitution as much as dexterity.


@Cerberus OK, now that I've had some sleep, I'd like to further address your post.

Everything your saying makes decent sense. In fact, I may have been swayed on the issue of flexibility alone if not for Metal Sonics input. He has a great point. Escape artist is indeed flexibility and is Dex based.

I'm confused on why you think they simplify things by rolling one factor (Dex) into BAB though.

Also, you listed speed under Str, and I've already explained why its a combination of both Str and Dex. That's important because its what tips the balance of importance into Dex territory


At a bare minimum, all weapons should be finesse-able. But I also think there should be a Str requirement to wield a two handed weapon, say 14.

In all reality, Dex should be the to-hit stat. But for the sake of ease, perhaps the former is the best option for a house rule. In all honesty, I'm glad I had this conversation because it brought that alone to light for me.


I have a bunch of different house rules... Most of them are not what most people would consider "minor".

This one, though, doesn't change anything fundamental about the game and adds a good chunk of character variety. ;)


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Frankly, I really don't care if it measures up to real-life or not. Dex already has plenty of things it effects (ranged combat, finesse melee, melee damage with the right feat[s], AC, reflex saves, a lot of useful skills, and probably one or two more things I'm not remembering at the moment) and Strength does not (really just melee combat, melee damage, carry capacity, and a much smaller array of skills, many of which are less useful except in niche situations [looking at you Swim]). I'm not interested in taking one from the latter and moving it to the overloaded former.


@Orthos Finesse melee and melee damage with feats don't count at all. Those require investments for the very reason that they don't use Dex. Plus, you can substitute one attribute for another with the appropriate feat or ability all over the place. Ranged combat, AC, Reflex, and Dex skills would certainly count though. But, I dont know if that stacks up to Str anyway. To hit and damage are huge. Dex is only a small part of AC for most (not all). Besides, the attributes aren't all equal anyway. Charisma has very little use for most who don't rely on it solely.

As is, Str pretty much reigns supreme as the most important attribute for melee characters, with just a few exceptions. In reality, Dex is more important.

Someone may argue, then why does the big guy have such an advantage in a real fight? To which I would answer, because both specimens have relatively equal dexterity, granting Tue larger guy the advantage from size.

Anyway, if mimicking reality isn't important to you then I can see why you wouldn't have a problem with it as is. And all aspect of the game can't mimic reality, I understand that. I just personally think think that it should when it can


We'll have to agree to disagree.


Doesn't the argument above suggest that Dex and Str naturally shouldn't be far from each other? Taken to it's logical extension it would support Str Dex and Con to either go up at a fractional rate as the other stats or be one 'body' stat.


In any case, I have a feeling that this becomes more than a 'minor houserule'.

On topic, I rule that 0HD outsider(native) races (eg. aasimar, tiefling) count as humanoids for purposes of what spells affect them. It keeps the assumptions the same for all PCs, and you don't get a member of the party subject to planar binding.


Malwing wrote:
Taken to it's logical extension it would support Str Dex and Con to either go up at a fractional rate as the other stats or be one 'body' stat.

They often do, but not absolutely


Braingamer wrote:
In any case, I have a feeling that this becomes more than a 'minor houserule'.

Its not as big of a change as the debate that always ensues


Malwing wrote:
Doesn't the argument above suggest that Dex and Str naturally shouldn't be far from each other? Taken to it's logical extension it would support Str Dex and Con to either go up at a fractional rate as the other stats or be one 'body' stat.

I'd say yes for Strength and Constitution. Not necessarily the case for Dexterity. Those who train and enhance their bodies relentlessly through exercise are often both stronger and hardier, but not necessarily more agile. So, perhaps there's somewhat of a correlation between the Str/Con and Dex going up, but I don't think it's a causitive relationship. This is just me talking out of personal observation, though.


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So minor rules changes...

Power attack is -1 / +2 even for two handed weapons.

Short rests for 1 hour let you spend HD to regain Hp back part way through the day (we often don't play with clerics)

At first level gain +con score instead of Con mod to HP.

If you fire into combat the opponent has cover and if you miss by 4 or less you hit an ally in combat.

If you use a template spell against a creature that is adjacent and fighting a PC you also hit the PC even if they are outside the template area.

No 75% settlement wealth magic items buys, random items only and basic heal potions/scrolls.

No Psionicists

No Summoners

2 traits at first level

We often use the vigor /wounds rules

Critical hit cards.

Plus a few others depending on the campaign setting.


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A square is a square, diagonal or not. It's SO much faster and simpler, and who cares about Pythagoras? It's a game.

If 3-D is needed, I find it close enough to add the long side plus half the short side. You only have to get within the closest 5ft square anyway.


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Malwing wrote:
Doesn't the argument above suggest that Dex and Str naturally shouldn't be far from each other? Taken to it's logical extension it would support Str Dex and Con to either go up at a fractional rate as the other stats or be one 'body' stat.

I actually like the idea of a symmetrical four-stat system that I first read about years ago:

Strength: Physical damage and mitigation
Dexterity: Physical to-hit and avoidance
Intelligence: Magical to-hit and avoidance
Charisma: Magical damage and mitigation

For other functions, CON has been merged into STR and WIS has been merged into CHA.


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In non-combat, non-hurrying situations, healing spells, healing potions, and other supernatural healing effects are maximized if cast/used as a full round action. This rule is particularly useful if the GM allows players to be at max hp instead of rolling a HD each level.


Athaleon wrote:
Malwing wrote:
Doesn't the argument above suggest that Dex and Str naturally shouldn't be far from each other? Taken to it's logical extension it would support Str Dex and Con to either go up at a fractional rate as the other stats or be one 'body' stat.

I actually like the idea of a symmetrical four-stat system that I first read about years ago:

Strength: Physical damage and mitigation
Dexterity: Physical to-hit and avoidance
Intelligence: Magical to-hit and avoidance
Charisma: Magical damage and mitigation

For other functions, CON has been merged into STR and WIS has been merged into CHA.

Sounds similar to how the Final Fantasy games do things. I can get behind that.

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