| Dire_Hamster |
Please forgive the brevity. Laboriously typing on ps4. My group is preparing to play RotRL, noone has any tabletop exp. Our 4th recently backed out, leaving us with three pcs: a rogue, witch, and monk. Immediately my newb eyes spot at least one problem: party of squishies sans dedicated healer! No heavy either, leaving our ratfolk monk (i know guys, she’s set on ratfolk) as our front line fighter. I'm hesitant on using a gm pc for all the obvious reasons besides my lack of experience. Gmpc would only fill one hole as well. I know witch does get some general utility healing spells but that its ancillary to her role in the party as a hexer. Tl;Dr: no healer, no meatshield, everyone's newbie please help!
| Gilarius |
There is a dedicated forum for expert advice/questions on RotRL, so you can get further advice on each part of the adventure in detail if you post there. The adventure is designed for 4 PCs, but with each of them non-optimised. Most GMs need to increase the difficulty otherwise the party kills almost everything quite easily. There are 3 or 4 places where accidentally killing the entire party is easy - look through the Runelords forum and take note of them!
However, for general advice about the party, this will do fine.
Rogue - skills, limited combat capability, lots of background roleplay possibilities. This PC will struggle to be relevant later on in the adventure, but will be pretty useful for the first 2 parts. I'd recommend changing class to Slayer (or Hunter, perhaps) to improve combat without losing the feel of the rogue.
Monk - as sole martial, this PC is likely to be targetted by the bad guys and therefore likely to go down in many fights. Changing the Rogue into a Slayer will help. Adding a summoned monster, or hiring an npc fighter will help even more. Or an animal companion.
Witch - if he/she focuses on using hexes in combat and spells for utility, this character will do fine. Using healing spells in combat is usually a waste of an action - use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds once the battle is over works far better. For a 3 person party, a Witch or Shaman is an excellent choice for a full caster.
GMPC - don't. There is an NPC (Shalelu) who could be hired by the party. She is an archery ranger, but could easily be re-made as a melee ranger. Let them hire her and then let them run her most of the time. She will start off higher level than the party (unless you reduce her level - if you make her so she has reasonable AC but weak attacks, they can't rely on her to kill the opposition but she will be able to keep the party alive long enough for them to kill the monsters), so they should pay her well. Then keep her one level below the party once they catch up. Or let her retire and allow one or more of the PCs to take Leadership to get a cohort who they prefer.
| Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
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So, let them have a 20pt buy, and be generous with starting equipment/ gold/ help from NPCs.
On the plus side, you might easily have a group where everyone is stealthy. That can be useful.
And remember, the standard is NOT 'did I read every word of this AP', the standard is 'are the players having fun?'. Feel free to adjust the AP.
Right away, the goblins are supposed to be both a nuisance and have comic value. Don't have them universally all turn and attack with perfect synchronicity. Instead, have one who's not paying attention, another who's using a sub-optimal weapon, another who is lighting things on fire, etc.
| Dire_Hamster |
| VRMH |
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Forget about the healer - they don't need one. Though they will probably need a few wands of Cure Light Wounds to compensate.
As for the lack of meatshield: why not give them a magical item that can summon a monster a few times per day? That won't steal anyone's thunder. A trained animal or two could also be pretty useful for the first few levels.
| Mysterious Stranger |
Are you using pathfinder unchained? The unchained monk and rogue are a big improvement over the original class, especially the monk.
Bump the point buy up to a 25 instead of 20. Also consider starting them at 2nd level instead of 1st. This will give them more HP and survivability.
As to the healing a wand of cure light wounds will take care of the HP. What they may have trouble with is condition removal. If the witch chooses the healing patron that will give them the majority of the condition removal spells. Taking the hedge witch archetype will give her the ability to spontaneously convert any spell she know into a cure x spell of the same or lower level even if she does not know the spell. If the witch is a hedge witch with the healing patron and you are generous with wands of cure light wounds and scrolls of condition removal spells they will never miss a healer. The witch can still use her spells and hexes for combat so she does not need to be a heal bot.
For the ratfolk monk dump CHA hard and focus on DEX. If you are using the 25 pt buy I would suggest the following array (after racial adjustments) STR 12, DEX18, CON 14, INT 11, WIS, 16, CHA 7. Take weapon finesse and then piranha strike at 3rd level. Also take the alternative racial traits of Cornered Fury and Skulk. Take dodge and combat reflexes for your first two monk bonus feats. When he gets to 6th level take elemental fury for some extra damage. Once he gets to about 4th level he will be fine. Corned Fury works actually very well for him. If he is at least 30 feet from anyone and down to half or lower HP he is very accurate and tough to take down. He will probably be the last one standing in a fight so make sure he has a couple of cure potions to use on the witch to heal her. Use a reach weapon like double chained Kama to take advantage of combat reflexes. He will still attack unarmed when he can but this allows him to get AoO on things moving into attack him.
| Dragonchess Player |
One recommendation is for the monk player to start with the sohei archetype (or, if they feel up to it, go sohei monk 4/sacred fist warpriest); the sohei's ability to wear light armor helps them survive the first few levels (when the monk is at it's weakest defensively) and the ability to use all martial weapons (including some that can be used with flurry of blows or have reach, plus bows) helps with their offensive output.
The monk and the rogue will need to fight smart (use terrain, set up flanking, avoid getting mobbed), but they should be able to handle most opponents. The witch should concentrate on battlefield control and debuffing opponents (the second is one of the witch's strengths); as mentioned, healing between fights with a wand of cure light wounds is usually the best strategy.
If you really feel the need for a GMPC, then a bard for buffing, combat support (focus on maneuvers using a whip), and additional healing might be a good choice to keep from stealing the spotlight.
| Grond |
The problem with healing in pen and paper games is not "do I have a class that can cast cure X wounds in the party?" but more of "do I have a class with condition removal ability?" because that is what really gets you. You can get by with cure light wound wands for healing but you need scrolls or potions or someone with condition removal ability.
| Dire_Hamster |
I'd never even heard of unchained, honestly. Getting the monk and rogue unchained will be a priority, assuming the rogue doesn't change classes. I'll have to look at the sohei archetype more closely, only ever skimmed it. The witch had taken c.l.w. for wands at her own behest but shunned archetypes, so i'll pay doubly close attention to proving the means to remove conditions appropriately. Great point, that! Same with a summon or companion. Wouldn't hurt to save them the gold to hire one.
| Mysterious Stranger |
The hedge witch only really has two changes. The first trades out your 4th level hex for the spontaneous healing. The nice thing is the witch does not even need to have the spell in her familiar. The second is empathic healing which allows the witch to take the effect of a poison or disease this replaces your 8th level hex. The important thing is to take the healing patron for access to condition removal spells. The witch also has all the summon monster spells on her list.
Pathfinder unchained is the new book that rewrites some rules including a rewrite on monks and rogues. The Monk is now a full BAB class among other things, but gave up good will saves. The rogue gets some extra abilities including weapon finesse for free and DEX to damage on a limited number of weapons.
An unchained monk is not really a squishy character anymore. The DEX based finesse monk actually works ok for a rat folk. He has a little trouble with damage, but he is surprisingly accurate. Piranha Strike will really help there. Since unarmed strikes are light weapons it works for him. The cornered fury can give him a +2 to hit and a +2 AC.
| Rub-Eta |
I think that party will do pretty fine (perfectly fine if you let them use unchained). Just be aware that you're running an AP for 3 players (they're made for 4 players). That means that you should be prepared to scale down on the enemies and throw them a bone once in a while.
As mentioned, the Witch can cover healing with a CLW wand, so don't hesitate to let them buy one, maybe even give them one for free.
| bookrat |
At low levels, book one, cure light wounds is your big healing problem.
As time goes on, party will need to be able to treat poison, disease, remove curses, etc.
I suspect a lot of scrolls will be used.
The witch has all those spells on their spell list. All the cure spells, remove poison, remove disease, remove curse, etc...
So they'll have plenty of healing available.
| Melkiador |
The main issue with a DM pc is that you don't want to take from the narrative. The players should be the ones solving issues. The safest way to do this is with a non humanoid PC. I would suggest basing your DM PC on an animal companion.
Any lack of healing in your group should be covered by giving extra healing wands in the loot.
| Avaricious |
The APs are pretty forgiving book one; I would agree with the 20 Point Buy that other people have proposed. It would be unnecessary to start at Level 2 because they would jack up very quickly during this phase anyways.
If you are concerned with them being overwhelmed, please consider that healing in combat is not optimal, but sparse out the waves of monsters in the encounter so that one player does not accidentally get ganked for example by several boars at once during a random encounter when they are L2.
Let the first couple of "easy" encounters establish what your characters can achieve and that'll decide the lines where players will feel challenged (having fun) versus fighting for their lives (OMGWTF).
No Healer: DMNPC. The town of Sandpoint has a friendly Cleric of Desna that could be a healing source. If they can befriend Ameiko, that could be another friendly healer as well.
No Tank: Unnecessary. Your group can innovate and find a solution to not having a dedicated front-liner. The monk can do an admirable job getting in the way of foes while the Rogue sets up those lovely sneak dice as DPS. Just make sure the monk player still feels useful whilst the Rogue becomes the offense MVP of the party.
The Witch still can be an effective healer especially since the patron spirit can deliver those spells to keep the range open... of the emergency kind. The Witch can feel awesome landing those hexes while keeping some spells in reserve for that must-save scenario should one of the combatants need it. Look into scrolls and wands to do most of the healing in the Witch's possession. APs love dropping general utility scrolls, wands, and potions as loot and rewards. Resting on-site could be another fun experience as well, especially early on when spell slots are very scant.
Since you are shy a player, DM, and this is a new experience, why not play that GAP character with them? That way you do not have to downgrade encounters that are designed for a 4-member party.
Need a tank and a healer without stealing the Party's thunder? PALADIN. You can be as active or passive as you need to be so long as the group doesn't abuse the asset or become outshined by this NPC that you are piloting. That Paladin could be that asset you need to directly voice your wishes/desire for the campaign to your PCs in-game. Doesn't have to be their leader, but more of an adviser/contact.
I wish you and players a fun gaming experience: your party composition is not bad at all and covers a wide base already, where the monk and rogue can choose to overlap agility/athletic roles while you have the Witch for Arcane challenges. A Divine-Type is the only gap in the roster and the Witch's variety of spells already mitigate that.
| FoolNamedFreedom |
You could also lower cost and up the chances of finding healing items as my 3.5 dungeon master did while I played in a campaign of (mostly) 2 my friend was a fighter and I was a rogue. Our sometimes third played a wizard. So without a dedicated healer our DM gave us more healing items. I eventually received a vampiric rapier that drained the life out of my targets and gave it to me.
You could build the paladin and toss it to your players and have them figure out what it does between the 3 of them.
I built my party a fighter because my party's paladin has an unreliable work schedule and can't always show up for game. I make them use him in combat and dungeons. I role-play him to the party as he has a low charisma and just enough int for certain feat requirements so I can't use him to give away DM knowledge or talk to myself.
| Dire_Hamster |
I'm trying to avoid a DMPC for as long as I can. That Cleric of Desna is probably a safe alternative. I'd probably have to try to get the heal bot to steal the party's thunder.
I haven't really looked into magic items (beyond wands) as a way to diminish the healing issue. Given that I was pretty generous with the point buy I am planning on keeping magic items relatively scarce, but I could just as easily fill that space with some clever healing items.
| tonyz |
For DMPC/healbot, I like clerics of Irori. "My job is to encourage you to be the best you can be. That end would not be served if I interfered in your learning to use your abilities and talents. I will keep you alive and help you, but your choices must be your own if you are to achieve enlightenment."