Weapon Familiarity
allows you to chose a race trait. which elf trait allows you to use elven weapons?
Paizo didn't write this the best way. There are race traits and racial traits.
Race traits are a type of trait, just like magic traits, faith traits, and combat traits. They can be taken as one of the two traits you get by a member of that race. That's what Adopted lets you do.
Racial traits are specific features of being a particular race. These are things like low-light vision or an elf's weapon proficiencies. These can't be taken through the Adopted trait.
Race trait = type of trait I.e. half feat
Racial trait = racial ability
right, not sure how it isn't getting thru...
you need to ignore standard english grammatical linkage,
and consider "race trait" entirely distinct from "racial trait",
those are different game terms that mean very different things.
weapon familiarity is an Elven "racial trait" i.e. "racial ability",
it appears in the race write-up as an ability all elves get.
it is NOT a "race trait" i.e. category of "half feat",
which are things that you select with starting traits (or "extra traits" feat)
and NOT every elf gets those (or even has the option to trade for other stuff).
adopted (social trait) grants a "race trait" i.e. half-feat, not racial trait i.e. racial ability,
so it isn't going to grant weapon familiarity, it grants "race traits":
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits
you CAN take "heirloom weapon" which is an equpment trait (1/2 feat)
which grants exotic proficiency (or other options if you already have proficiency).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/equipment-traits/heirloom-weapon
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The adopted trait allows you to take one of these "race traits" even if your character's race doesn't match the prerequisite race.
Quandry's advice for the heirloom weapon equipment trait is sound.
The adopted trait allows you to take one of these "race traits" even if your character's race doesn't match the prerequisite race.
Quandry's advice for the heirloom weapon equipment trait is sound.
Some notes on this 'solution': The Heirloom Weapon trait is that you do not gain proficiency with that type of weapon, you can proficiency with that specific heirloom. Lose that sword, and it's gone. The weapon is non-masterwork, and, until recently, was stuck that way. Now, with the masterwork transformation spell, it can be improved further. Oh yeah, and the biggest kicker: Heirloom Weapon only works with simple or martial weapons - no exotics.
taking a dip in fighter would pretty much make adopted useless if i could take weapon familiarity right?
OK, besides your confusion over race trait vs. racial trait, you misunderstand the point of weapon familiarity.
Look at what it says:Weapon Familiarity: Elves are proficient with longbows (including composite longbows), longswords, rapiers, and shortbows (including composite shortbows), and treat any weapon with the word "elven" in its name as a martial weapon.
It grants proficiency in some martial weapons.
Fighter already grants those, and alot of other classes grant some or all of them too.
It also says you treat "elven" exotic weapons AS MARTIAL WEAPONS.
That means you get proficiency in those if you already have proficiency in ALL MARTIAL WEAPONS.
In other words, to make use of that feature, you NEED to be a Fighter or similar "all martial weapon proficiency" class.
EDIT: Thanks CraziFuzzy for reminding of the Errata on Heirloom Weapon that makes it Martial/Simple only, not Exotic, plus it's restriction to one specific (physical) weapon.
As I mentioned before, if you're interested in proficiency in only one weapon, look at Heirloom Weapon.
(which grants proficiency in one exotic weapon... not sure, but there is probably the equivalent for martial weapons)
Again, reread that. Heirloom Weapon does NOT grant exotic weapon proficiency:
You carry a non-masterwork simple or martial weapon that has been passed down from generation to generation in your family.
Benefit: When you select this trait, choose one of the following benefits:
- proficiency with that specific weapon
- a +1 trait bonus on attacks of opportunity with that specific weapon
- a +2 trait bonus on one kind of combat maneuver when using that specific weapon.
Note: You pay the standard gp cost for the weapon.
Thanks, I didn't see you ninja'd me until now, now Edited. :-)
(the Heirloom Weapon trait might be attractive for non-martial classed Elves who can use it with Elven Exotic Weapon via Wpn Familiarity)
Thanks, I didn't see you ninja'd me until now, now Edited. :-)
(the Heirloom Weapon trait might be attractive for non-martial classed Elves who can use it with Elven Exotic Weapon via Wpn Familiarity)
It's a common mistake. The 1st printing of the Adventurer's Armory was royally screwed up, and one of the major problems was the Heirloom Weapon trait. It actually did grant exotic weapon proficiency at that time, and even granted a masterwork version of the weapon for free. All bad for just a trait. They screwed up the 2nd printing, and didn't include the fixes it required. Then, finally, a year later, got out a 'proper' 2nd printing with the fixes in place.
I'm just glad I stick with d20pfsrd.com as my primary source, since Paizo has had such a bad history of this 'we're a book maker who can't figure out how to tell a printer how to print our books' problem.
It's gone too far the other way. Flat proficiency in a single martial weapon type would have been appropriate.
True, and many GM's allow that. I don't think the proficiency is the most oft-used choice of the three effects Heirloom Weapon offers anyway. I've seen it more often used for the combat maneuver bonus, especially with already boosted maneuver weapons (a disarm or trip
weapon, for instance).
Wait, wait, wait...I think zainale is thinking of the right mechanic, but the wrong name.
Adoptive Parentage is a human alternate trait that gives you another race's weapon familiarity racial trait, as well as their language, and it trades out your bonus feat.
That does explicitly what he is asking for, and that is why I think he simply got the name wrong (because...it is a 'brawler', 'brawler', 'brawling' situation- not a good enough theasaurus, eh Paizo?)
So yeah... it is an ok ability, I guess. If you are going for EWP anyway, it gives you a bonus language for your trouble. Also, you can grab it at level 1 while playing a 3/4 BAB class, so skipping a prerequisite is nice too. I think I would go half elf instead for all the trouble though (I like low light vision and elven immunities better than a skill point)
Hmm... that might be appropriate for Zainale, but I don't think they were thinking of it, because they talked about "choosing a race trait" which doesn't at all apply to the Adoptive Parentage Human Alt-Racial Trait (ability). Could be "crossed wires" or whatever.
Re: XWP & 3/4 BAB class, remember that Weapon Familiarity only grants Racial Exotic Weapon Proficiency IF you already have "all Martial Weapon proficiency", since it doesn't grant proficiency directly in the exotics (it only does that for longbows, shortbows, shortsword, etc) it just lets you treat the racial exotics "as martial weapons".
You could use Heirloom Weapon Trait in combo with Adoptive Parentage/Weapon Familiarity to gain proficiency in the desired Racial Exotic Weapon "as a martial weapon" though... But for spending a Trait and a Feat (in essence, since you give up Bonus Feat for Adoptive Parentage) you only end up proficiency in that one specific weapon, not all of it's type (and a language). Might as well spend your Bonus Feat on XWP and I'm pretty sure there's a trait that grants a bonus language.
Or if you can dip in Fighter/"all martial weapon" class, that lets you be proficient in all the racial exotic weapons enabled by Adoptive Parentage/Weapon Familiarity without spending a Feat. (you get back as Fighter Bonus Feat the Feat you "lost" to get Adoptive Parentage)
Race trait.
Racial trait.
THESAURUS! They are helpful tools!
But yes, I think he wanted a trait (the 'take 2' kind), and remembered there was an ability that gave him what he wanted, but forgot it was a trait ('abilities of a race' kind)
I am not going to argue that there was not confusion about all this. I am just arguing that the thing he was looking for exists, he just forgot the context of it.
Just for fun: I went down a level, and then went up a level that gave me a new level to use in this level.
To be fair, IMHO the problem isn't that they both use the term "race",
because they both are tied to the "race" game mechanic, that is the proper word to use...
The problem is that both are using the term "trait", but when they created the "1/2 Feat" trait system,
I don't think they originally even had a "race" sub-type for those traits,
so they didn't really consider the over-lap with "racial traits" at all.
Later when they added "race traits" it was too late, there isn't really a better term
if you want to create "traits" tied to the "race" game mechanic, it's more confusing to call it "species",
and having a sub-type of traits linked to "race" is certainly reasonable game design.
That they DID call it "race" and not "racial" is at least a minor help in distinguishing them.
Next time around (PRPG 2nd Ed), they might just call racial traits "racial abilities",
or change the name of "traits" (1/2 feats) to something else - "featling"? :-)
right, not sure how it isn't getting thru...
you need to ignore standard english grammatical linkage,
and consider "race trait" entirely distinct from "racial trait",
those are different game terms that mean very different things.weapon familiarity is an Elven "racial trait" i.e. "racial ability",
it appears in the race write-up as an ability all elves get.it is NOT a "race trait" i.e. category of "half feat",
which are things that you select with starting traits (or "extra traits" feat)
and NOT every elf gets those (or even has the option to trade for other stuff).adopted (social trait) grants a "race trait" i.e. half-feat, not racial trait i.e. racial ability,
so it isn't going to grant weapon familiarity, it grants "race traits":
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traitsyou CAN take "heirloom weapon" which is an equpment trait (1/2 feat)
which grants exotic proficiency (or other options if you already have proficiency).http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/equipment-traits/heirloom-weapon
Well said!!
Heirloom Weapon Trait only provides use of that weapon?. If I take longbow Heirloom Weapon Trait. I am not proficient with all longbows?
That is correct. You only have proficiency with that one particular longbow.
Re: XWP & 3/4 BAB class, remember that Weapon Familiarity only grants Racial Exotic Weapon Proficiency IF you already have "all Martial Weapon proficiency", since it doesn't grant proficiency directly in the exotics (it only does that for longbows, shortbows, shortsword, etc) it just lets you treat the racial exotics "as martial weapons".
There ARE 3/4 BAB classes with full martial proficiency.
Heirloom Weapon Trait only provides use of that weapon?. If I take longbow Heirloom Weapon Trait. I am not proficient with all longbows?
Correct, think of it as a sort of familial bond to that particular passed down item. This was far more limited when it was originally created, as that weapon was forever mundane. Now, however, the masterwork transformation spell allows it to be refined, and then it can be enchanted, so that same weapon can now grow with the character.
That depends on your build and how you are using the trait. Elves don't normally get scimitar as part of weapon familiarity.
Are you taking the social trait "Adopted" as described in the Traits section of the Additional rules chapter of the Advanced Player's Guide? (It also appears in the Traits section of the Character Background chapter of Ultimate Campaign.)
If so, you cannot use that to acquire elven weapon familiarity.
The Adopted trait must be used to select a Race Trait from those same chapters, or a race trait from another setting book like Elves of Golarion.
On the other hand, you might be taking the Adoptive Parentage alternate racial option that appears in the Advanced Race Guide under the Humans section of the Core Races chapter. In that case, you can get the elven Weapon familiarity ability, along with the elven language, in exchange for losing the bonus feat humans normally get.
I assume they are confusing scimitars with longswords vis-a-vis Elven Weapon Familiarity...?
The OP needs to be clear about exactly what they are talking about, their cryptic one-liner posts are not even acknowledging the issues brought up by the very thorough responses of people trying to help. Why should anybody continue to try to help when their responses are ignored? To be generous, I almost want to think that maybe the OP has a language or reading/writing problem... OK, bad grammar or whatever can still be understandable, but I still see a total lack of reciprocation in communication.
People are responding with Human specific stuff because that seems the best way to make sense of the OP's cryptic/erroneous posts, but we don't really know what Class or Race the OP wants to use in the first place. For all I know they could be overlooking the fact that their desired Class or Race already grants scimitar proficiency or whatever.