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As I understand it, the vanity followers are not able to be targeted and are considered not in the area when combat happens.
This works for both players and GMs. So a player can't use a vanity follower to hold things or provide any combat effect at all. And as far as the NPCs that your GM controls the vanity follower doesn't exist.
Developer
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The only time I would consider a follower vanity fair game would be if a PC went out of his way to endanger the follower—ideally through a conscious choice of the player.
For example:
Cannibal King: "Before we can negotiate, I demand the right to consume one of you."
PC #3: I push my scholar vanity forward. "Here's your meal!"
Cannibal King: Om nom nom!
At that point the player has made a conscious choice to endanger the follower well beyond the scope of what the vanity would normally assume. As long as the player is also willing to deal with any alignment ramifications that result, I don't terribly mind. I don't even consider a massive cave-in that kills the whole group a valid reason to kill the follower; the players already have enough to worry about expense-wise at that point.
As I understand it, the vanity followers are not able to be targeted and are considered not in the area when combat happens.
This works for both players and GMs. So a player can't use a vanity follower to hold things or provide any combat effect at all. And as far as the NPCs that your GM controls the vanity follower doesn't exist.
So can the OP appeal the GM's ruling? (If so, to who?)
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So can the OP appeal the GM's ruling? (If so, to who?)As I understand it, the vanity followers are not able to be targeted and are considered not in the area when combat happens.
This works for both players and GMs. So a player can't use a vanity follower to hold things or provide any combat effect at all. And as far as the NPCs that your GM controls the vanity follower doesn't exist.
To whom......
(His VC).
Yeah I would have to say more information is needed before a proper response could be given.
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I've given this some thought and here's my piece:
If a scenario is set in a hazardous area and you don't bother to roleplay keeping safe or otherwise don't pay attention to the vanity members of the party, they can be in very real danger. However, losing tons of prestige if you are tired, unfocused etc is an easy way to make the campaign unfun so once the party gets back to civilization they just pull a few strings and get new vanity folks for free.
Recently I played a scenario where leaving your mount, civilians etc unguarded while exploring a barghest lair saw them get eaten by the inhabitants returning from a hunting trip. A few years back in a 7-11 scenario I gm'd the party tackled a gorge which was periodically beset by a gale of icy wind that caused damage. I think both of these examples demonstrate areas and circumstances where losing a follower, however temporarily, is a possibility.
I'm fine with running it different though. Sometimes my approach just adds to the drama, is all.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Yeah I would have to say more information is needed before a proper response could be given.
I would say the proper answer was given already. (John Compton's answer, by definition, lays out the proper response. :) )
More information is needed to satisfy our curiosity however.
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Seeing as my daughters, Lucy and Mina, are along for the educational value of Pathfinder missions (the educational point being, there are safer ways to make a living) as well as a my Herold and Squire I state they will most definately not be fed to the Cannibal King.
Thank you John for pointing out that they are out of danger.
As their father, they are still too young to date.
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Vanities such as followers are pretty clearly intended to fade into the background most of the time.
IMO, the GM shouldn't attempt to target followers or even ask what they're doing in combat. Likewise, players shouldn't abuse followers or use them as shields. Doing so repeatedly makes them fair game. imho.
Yeah I would have to say more information is needed before a proper response could be given.I would say the proper answer was given already. (John Compton's answer, by definition, lays out the proper response. :) )
More information is needed to satisfy our curiosity however.
While John's response is clear as to how it should be handled without information on what happened to the vanity we have no clue what if any recourse should be taken to rectify the situation.
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Developer
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[Context]
Followers are not present as combatants, and barring extraordinary circumstances—ideally in which the player makes choices that purposefully endanger the follower (see above example)—a follower should not be subjected to harm. Your scholar follower should not have died during that adventure. Consider your follower revived, albeit a bit frazzled and jittery when attending theatrical productions.
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He demands tripple what you're paying him now.
But will give in if you offer him double.
And 3 nights at the local Calistrian Temple
(what? It's a learning experience.)
As long as he takes notes (with sketches). After all that's what a scholar does right?
Actually, he was offered a separate job, something to do with a succubus in a grapple, and the experimental discussions involved thereto.
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I did have a follower die once while playing, and I think it was totally legit. We left my PC's vanity follower outside a certain cave entrance guarding unconscious-but-stable (and very-well tied up) guards...
...as we tracked down Red Mantis assassins who were trying to kill someone we were tasked with protecting. As we fought our way through the cave/base, apparently someone came in after us, pausing only long enough to kill my PC's follower and set their own people free, before jumping us from behind.
Once the GM explained what happened post-game, I was totally okay with it (and to this day my PC still feels ashamed that he led someone to their death like that).
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[Context]Followers are not present as combatants, and barring extraordinary circumstances—ideally in which the player makes choices that purposefully endanger the follower (see above example)—a follower should not be subjected to harm. Your scholar follower should not have died during that adventure. Consider your follower revived, albeit a bit frazzled and jittery when attending theatrical productions.
John alluded to an important point with "followers are not present as combatants." That means they literally aren't there. Followers are an abstract concept and dont occupy any space on a battlemat. The can't be killed but neither can you use them for cover or to provide a flank. If for some reason you have put a figure representing a follower on a map, it should be removed when combat starts.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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I'm sorry to revive an old thread, but I've got to ask... Can a porter carry a familiar? I'm considering having a Penguin familiar accompany the Blues Brothers, but I just found out that Penguins are size SMALL in Pathfinder. If I bought a Porter, could it carry my valet familiar on a palanquin?
Would that work, or would that be considered carrying a combat animal (due to the familiar being my magical beast) and thus, a no-no?
Hmm
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I'm sorry to revive an old thread, but I've got to ask... Can a porter carry a familiar? I'm considering having a Penguin familiar accompany the Blues Brothers, but I just found out that Penguins are size SMALL in Pathfinder. If I bought a Porter, could it carry my valet familiar on a palanquin?
Would that work, or would that be considered carrying a combat animal (due to the familiar being my magical beast) and thus, a no-no?
Hmm
Depending on how much you want to use your penguin, carry companion might work. You should still be able to retain Alertness if he's on your person (seems odd, but I don't see anything that says you lose Alertness in a situation like this).
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Venture-Agent, Missouri—St. Louis
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I'm sorry to revive an old thread, but I've got to ask... Can a porter carry a familiar? I'm considering having a Penguin familiar accompany the Blues Brothers, but I just found out that Penguins are size SMALL in Pathfinder. If I bought a Porter, could it carry my valet familiar on a palanquin?
Would that work, or would that be considered carrying a combat animal (due to the familiar being my magical beast) and thus, a no-no?
Hmm
I'd personally allow it, although note that since he's actually carrying a thing with stats he's now placed himself in the line of fire, so don't complain if he eats that same fireball that the familiar did.
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I'm sorry to revive an old thread, but I've got to ask... Can a porter carry a familiar? I'm considering having a Penguin familiar accompany the Blues Brothers, but I just found out that Penguins are size SMALL in Pathfinder. If I bought a Porter, could it carry my valet familiar on a palanquin?
Would that work, or would that be considered carrying a combat animal (due to the familiar being my magical beast) and thus, a no-no?
Hmm
You might want to purchase a trained animal. like a horse (or a slave if the GM allows it), to carry your familiar, as the PP follower is a rather expensive method if you put them in combat situations.
The other choice would be to just make it clear to your GM that the penguin was a non-combat familiar. Basically, it keeps out of the way and doesn't roll attacks at all. Most GMs would be thrilled to have less characters to keep track of. AoE effects might still get them, but reasonable precaution should allow you to keep them out of most fights.
Though regarding the porter and the familiar, you don't have to bring them everywhere. If there's a very dangerous situation ahead, you may want to just withdraw them from the quest. Yeah, the familiar bonuses are lost if they get too far away, though there are feats to remedy that too. I'd call that being responsible.
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All of this is why I plan to take a rank in Profession (Herald) on my psychic that will be doing EotT, then having him act as the herald for his protege. Clearly, the psychic won't be participating in anything important (too busy smoking flayleaf and insisting that the party needs to learn how to handle it on their own, but willing to perform a body recovery if needed for the appropriate PP), but if someone wants to single out the herald that's actively avoiding danger after I tell them about Jon's post, I won't hesitate to pull out the character sheet.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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Yeah, I'll be an arcane caster (multiclass between a bloodrager and a bard) but floating disk is not on my spell list. Still, a wand of that might help after the Porter drops the bird....
My runner up familiar would be a far mechanically superior black rabbit named Ray that I could easily carry myself. But it might not be as epic as "The Penguin" (who desperately needs a ruler...)
The fact that I am still considering this option shows the depths to which I'm willing to go with my character development. I may also just have it sticking out of my pack and deal with the weight through other means, like UMDing a wand of ant haul... I cannot believe I'm putting so much thought into this, actually.
Hmm
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might not be as epic as "The Penguin" (who desperately needs a ruler...)
The fact that I am still considering this option shows the depths to which I'm willing to go with my character development. I may also just have it sticking out of my pack and deal with the weight through other means, like UMDing a wand of ant haul... I cannot believe I'm putting so much thought into this, actually.
Hmm
Yeah, the backpack is a good option. I'd look into that "Muscle of Society" Trait, as it gives you an extra 2 points of strength for carry weight.
Though regarding the Penguin, it has a speed of 30ft on Snow or Ice covered terrain, so you could certainly take spells to gain snow/ice instead. Also a good swim speed, so generating water could also work.
Depending on your character build, I highly recommend the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype for familiars with inconvenient movement speeds.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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I am not multiclassing with tattooed sorc. No. There's a limit to how much I'm willing to multiclass to make this concept work.
Oy. Penguins weigh 70 pounds and have a movement speed of 10 feet! Can anyone blame me for looking at the Porter vanity here? This is the first time I've even looked at the Porter vanity. If only reduce animal was not so expensive (and requiring UMD.)
Hmm
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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]I think you already found our solution, BNW...
Puffin seems so much more reasonable, and I can stop worrying about having any other porter than me!
Hmm