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When the players run into an antagonist, and they make their knowledge check, (lets assume they make it by less than 5) how much information do you give them. The book says they "identify the monster." So by rules as written, you could theoretically just give them the name, or you could give them enough to distinguish it from other monsters.
Lets take the Otyugh.
The players run into an otyugh, you tell them they see a freakish three-legged monster that is mostly mouth. Three tentacles, two tipped with barbs and one with eyes, extend from its sides. " (or maybe you show them the picture)
They make their knowledge check exactly. How much do you tell them?
I would probably go with something along the lines of: "It's a creature known as an Otyugh, it's a garbage scavenger though it is not particularly picky about what it eats and whether that thing is dead yet. As far as creature types, it counts an aberration,."
I've met people who say "It's an Otyugh, it's an aberration." or even people who would just say "It's an Otyugh"
By the book, the knowledge system is pretty bad. You identify the creature and get 1 piece of information followed by an additional piece of information for every 5 you surpass the DC by.
DMs can give you shitty information, like "it has a tentacle attack"; stuff like this should be fairly obvious.
I always give the most identifying feature or features of a creature if the PCs make the DC. So, if they make their check on a Troll, for instance, they would know about regeneration and how to suppress it (who would know what a Troll is but not about its regeneration?).
For creatures with more varied abilities, I might give a general description of their abilities on a check but then give more details at each higher +5 tier. For instance, making your check against an aboleth will tell you they are masters of mental manipulation who exude a strange slime they use in some way to maintain control of their victims. Higher results will net specific SLAs they have and the mechanics of their slime power.
I once wrote a house rule in order to try to be as fair as possible to PCs when adjudicating these knowledge rolls. The thing is, it ended up at like 6 pages long... so it didn't really speed up gameplay like I hoped. Now I just prepare results at each tier in advance.
I don't follow the rules about knowledge checks, I just ask them to choose a knowledge skill, and if they roll high enough(whatever I judge that to be) they get some info about something that relates to the skill used.
If I have info on it; I would like to give it out...
I've thought about reducing knowledge skills to
knowledge(natural) - nature, dungeoneering, geography
knowledge(supernatural) - arcane, religion, planes
knowledge(cultural) - history, local, nobility
That really didn't answer your rules question :) so let me add:
"I agree with Whale Cancer."
I usually see the GM give a choice of what piece of information the player wants. Things such as resistances, special attacks, worst saving throw, and tactically important things like that.
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I've thought about reducing knowledge skills to
knowledge(natural) - nature, dungeoneering, geography
knowledge(supernatural) - arcane, religion, planes
knowledge(cultural) - history, local, nobility
Heh, that is almost exactly how I break mine down...
"Environment" - nature, geography, dungeoneering
"Society" - history, local, nobility
"Mystic" - arcana, planes, religion
And then of course Engineering all by it's lonesome :P
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The book says they "identify the monster."
No, the book says "A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster."
So you give them a bit of useful information about that monster.
Very important to note the presence of the word "useful" in the rules. ;)
DC : Type of creature confirmed, and general classification (I reskin monsters quite often, so sometimes the big nasty bone thing is a Treant in undead clothing). So in the case of the reskinned treant, they'd get 'Big skeleton type undead', and general idea of the creature. "It's some sort of undead, not a normally raised type though", letting them know this isn't someone's pet skelly gone wild. Specific name if it's a Common or Uncommon creature.
DC +5 : Specific name of rare creature. One power (usually the one it uses actively the most), and some RP background (It's a nature spirit, usually likes to play jokes (Kelpie), or 'It's a spontaneously arising undead that arises from giants that die from betrayal' in the case of the undead treant.
DC +10 : Another power (second most actively used power)
Each +5 : Another power (in descending order of how actively used it is)
On the other hand, circumstance bonuses may raise or lower the DC significantly. For example, a creature from another continent may be DC 50, even if it's common, if there's nothing like it on their continent (Good example of this would be a kangaroo or platypus to a european explorer). If it's similar to something they already encounter (african lion vs european lion) then they get the basic gist it's similar but not the same as the one they are used to, and any obvious things that are different.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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How do you choose between which pieces of information to give? In particular, if a creature has DR/xxxx, when would you tell the players what the "xxxx" is? Similarly for any immunities. Tactically, that's probably the most useful information they can get, but should that be the first thing they get or do they need a higher roll before they get that over other things (like any special attacks)?
Personally, I usually go by what I think would be the most well-known tidbit about the monster.
For instance, consider a ghoul:
If you only remember one thing from Monsters 101 about the ghoul, what is it? That it's a form of undead. So if you make the DC, I give you that it's undead (thus having undead traits). The next most common knowledge would be that its attacks can paralyze you, since that's something that will be known (and talked about) by pretty much everyone who's ever fought one, so that's what you get with DC+5. It's less common knowledge that it spreads a fever that can turn you into a ghoul yourself, but still something that those "in the know" would be aware of, so that's DC+10. Finally, if you really know your ghouls (DC+15), you'll be aware that unlike most of the 'common' undead, ghouls are intelligent and can therefore think tactically about how to take you down.
But that's just me. :)
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I liked in the later 3.5e monster books, where each monster came with a table of results by DC.
I had players who insisted (upon their characters first encountering it) that their character was convinced the platypus was clearly a magically created construct, since nothing like that could occur in nature. :)
Awesome response. :)
Stuff...
But that's just me. :)
About what I was saying above, the most actively used/known thing, then the second, etc. So +1 to Jiggy. :)
I usually just fake it based on how high they roll, and modify it based on how commonplace the monster is in the game. Even if it's a 1HD monster, if it's some freaky thing from beyond the Pancake Dimension, you're not going to figure out much.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I have been using a policy that a GM in PFS used a year or two ago. The basic check reveals the name and type. Every 5 after that allows 1 question, i.e special attacks, immunities, defenses, etc.
I briefly did that, until I encountered (as a player) a monster with a very unique ability that would pretty obviously be the most famous thing about it. My GM did the questions thing, and I asked the most basic question(s) (I don't remember how many) and we nearly had someone die because of the unique ability that, in-character, I probably would have known before I'd have known the things I got from my question(s).
Since then, I've been doing the famous-ness thing when I GM.
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How do you choose between which pieces of information to give? In particular, if a creature has DR/xxxx, when would you tell the players what the "xxxx" is? Similarly for any immunities. Tactically, that's probably the most useful information they can get, but should that be the first thing they get or do they need a higher roll before they get that over other things (like any special attacks)?
I'd give the most well-known or iconic abilities first, not the most tactically useful ones. In some cases that's the DR, but in many it's not.
For example, "hurt by silver" would be the first or second bit of info if you're fighting a werewolf (next to "lycanthropy is transmitted through a bitw or scratch"), but if it's a Soucouyant I'd probably start with "It can set itself on fire," "it explodes when it dies," or "it drains your blood" and get to the DR/cold iron and magic as the 4rd-5th item alongside the magical resistances.
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I get a lot of millage out of Monster Lore Compendium It's for D&D and not everything is accurate, or covered for that matter, but it's a BIG help for me to know what to reveal for each DC achieved.
Aw dang, I missed the official rules and just let the player look at the Bestiary entry if they met the base DC...
Do you think a default roll should be enough to know the creature's subtype and the features that come with that? So someone who rolls a 13 against a quasit could say, "I know it's a demon, so that means it probably has (standard demon strengths and weaknesses), though I can't say much about this particular specimen."
Aw dang, I missed the official rules and just let the player look at the Bestiary entry if they met the base DC...
Do you think a default roll should be enough to know the creature's subtype and the features that come with that? So someone who rolls a 13 against a quasit could say, "I know it's a demon, so that means it probably has (standard demon strengths and weaknesses), though I can't say much about this particular specimen."
Yeah, the type is probably the minimum for this. If they make the base DC they should get at least the type.
"Oh, it's a demon."
"Oh, it's a dragonspawn."
"Oh, it's a fey."
By meeting the Base DC my group has always given the name of the creature and the creature type (and subtype if relevant), including the information from the bestiary about that creature type.
As an example:
The players encounter a creature (a Mohrg). In order to successfully identify it they must roll a Knowledge(Religion) check at a DC of 18 (10+CR8). If they roll an 18 to a 22 then I would give them the following.
Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (medium progression).
Good Will saves.
No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
Darkvision 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature's Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
These are general traits of Undead. I would also give them one specific trait about Mohrgs, such as they have the ability to paralyze or that they can create spawn, but not both unless they get 5 or more over the DC.
Yeah, the type is probably the minimum for this. If they make the base DC they should get at least the type.
"Oh, it's a demon."
"Oh, it's a dragonspawn."
"Oh, it's a fey."
And if you know the type, you know everything that the type entails? I'm just a little uncertain about how much people are assumed to know about monsters.
Funny story, last night my RotR party managed to discover virtually everything that skeletons can't (easily) be hurt by through trial and error. The monk smashed one to pieces with a single punch, but the second undead withstood swords, bolts, enchantments, and non-monk unarmed attacks. Went down when the cleric used his hammer to great effect.
I am playing a ranger who's party was attacked by an anaconda. After learning from the knowledge nature skillcheck that it was a constrictor we realised that we got lucky: the monster, that attacked the party using grapple, attacked the monk instead of any other member it might have easily crushed to death without breaking a sweat. And it was luck as the DM openly rolled the die and told who corresponded to what number. So the 'poor' monster was basically outclassed big time by the prey it hoped to surprise. And our monk basically immobilized the monster so all we needed after that was a 'Coup de grace' and as the term suggested, we mercifully killed it with one blow. After which we ate a nice anaconda sandwich.