Improvised Weapons In PFS

[Nohwear]

I am wondering if anyone has ever had problems with a character focusing on improvised weapons? I am mainly concerned with either significant table variation or slowing things down.

[wellsmv]

Ive seen some weird builds based on it..

as long as you let your gm know at begin of scenario you should be fine..

[BigNorseWolf]

Just watch the difference between flat footed and denied dex in some of your feats and you should be good

[kinevon]

Expect some table variation at higher levels as to whether it can be affected by Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Weapon, and it is unlikely to be enchantable normally.

[blackbloodtroll]

Depends.

Monk of the Empty Hand has a standardized damage.

I go with things that already note how to determine their damage.

Arrows, Bolts, Combat scabbard(non-sharpened), Crowbar, Hammer, Miner's pick, Sledge, Torch, and whatnot.

The Combat Scabbard is great, as it can be made with Special Materials, in PFS, but is still an improvised weapon. It's a wonky item that is a weapon for some purposes, and an improvised weapon for others. This is the common Combat Scabbard, and not the Sharpened Combat Scabbard, which is a weapon in all regards.

For other options, there is the Alpine Ice Axe, which is basically one of the only magical improvised weapon you can get your hands on, other than the Faith Orb, which is only available in PFS through a Chronicle Sheet.

[Rei]

Also note the spell Refine Improvised Weapon if you want the appearance of an improvised weapon but with actual weapon stats, which allows it to have Magic Weapon cast on it regardless of table variation.

[BigNorseWolf]

The big problem is, as you level, things have DR and you need magic weapons to overcome them or even hit them. Warpriest may be able to get around this. Not sure what else can.

[The Fox]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The big problem is, as you level, things have DR and you need magic weapons to overcome them or even hit them. Warpriest may be able to get around this. Not sure what else can.

Paladins (smite evil)

Barbarians (Power Attack)

Rogues (sneak attack)

:)

Edit: I agree with your premise, BNW. It would be nice if we could get improvised weapons enchanted. It would make the improvised weapon builds more appealing.

[Nefreet]

Being able to take "Weapon Focus (rock)" would be nice, too.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, on a certain Chronicle, there is a Crowbar that just "bypasses DR".

[Le Petite Mort]

It would be nice if there were a masterwork transformation equivalent that did what refine improvised weapon does permanently. My Asmodean would pay 300 gp more to use a torch instead of a heavy mace with continual flame on it.

[blackbloodtroll]

My Breaker Barbarian just loves chunks of special materials.

Adamantine Cobra? It's not even my birthday!

[Add Wait]

Nefreet wrote:

Being able to take "Weapon Focus (rock)" would be nice, too.

You can take two levels of ranger and get weapon focus without having the prerequisites. The prerequisites for weapon focus are proficiency and +1 BAB. So rangers can technically get weapon focus (tuba or whatever). :P

[nosig]

yeah, my wife is looking at this for her new Oread PC. She found a figure she liked, a grave digger, and now wants to go with using a shovel (improvised Weapon) in combat (two handed - picturing it as a great club). I had to tell her yesterday that a shovel is a one handed weapon (still counts as a club though) - now she's not so happy with her Pharasman Grave Digger Alchemist (named Mud Pie)...

[nosig]

Add Wait wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Being able to take "Weapon Focus (rock)" would be nice, too.

You can take two levels of ranger and get weapon focus without having the prerequisites. The prerequisites for weapon focus are proficiency and +1 BAB. So rangers can technically get weapon focus (tuba or whatever). :P

heck, it would be nice is they listed damage stats for it... (but then people would say it was a weapon, not an improvised weapon "because it's on the weapon table!")

I've had different judges rule a thrown rock does everything from a d4 to no damage (as in Zero damage), (also one guy ruled 1d4 non-lethal - but that was against skeletons... yeah, non-lethal does no damage vs. undead). It would be nice if I knew what a thrown brick would do in damage...

[FLite]

She can still wield it two handed though.

[nosig]

FLite wrote:

She can still wield it two handed though.

I pointed that out to her, but she pictures the shovel (the one the figure has) as being 5' or so long. You know, the shovel guys on road crews use (and are pictured leaning on), not the little things campers use. I got her thinking of using a "large" shovel (and taking the -2 to hit), so maybe she'll go that way.

Or just getting her to use a Sledge Hammer - which in the description works like an Earth-Breaker... But then it wont match the figure, so that doesn't work either.

[GM Lamplighter]

I don't think you can take Weapon Focus (non-weapon).

PRD wrote:

Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.

Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

(emphasis mine)

EDIT: even as a ranger to ignore prerequisites, you still must choose a weapon.

[grandpoobah]

I have an improvised weapon build that has been a lot of fun. I tend to be conservative in my interpretation of the rules. Search Fu should reveal some threads on this. My Summary:

1. An Improvised Weapon is not a Weapon. It cannot be enchanted, modified with spells, you cannot apply weapon-feats to it (such as weapon focus) and generally does not bypass any DR.

2. Caveat: You can take the Surprise Weapon Trait from Ultimate Campaign. This is a +2 trait bonus to hit with improvised weapons, which basically is the same as Masterwork + Weapon Focus (mathematically). So it's cool at low levels

3. Most spells that make Improvised Weapons "better" actually turn them into weapons, which means they're not Improvised Weapons anymore, so all your Improvised Weapon abilities would turn off.

4. Beating DR at high levels is hard. There are two Chronicle Items (I have both with GM credits), one gets Adamantine (I play it as ONLY Adamantine), and one gets Good. A Monk of the Empty Hand can Swift action to Slashing/Bludgeoning/Piercing. A GM might be inclined to give me Silver or Cold Iron if the item was made primarily of that substance, but expect Table variation.

Realistically, I'm still a Monk - so if it comes down to it, I can punch something. I have also recently started using my Adamantine Crowbar and Improved Sunder as a "Can Opener" on high AC targets. Also, if the DR is only 5-10, I have Power Attack and a high Strength and will power through it (it's what you do for Elementals anyway).

It's hard for me to be effective at high levels (now level 9), but the character was always intended to be more about fun zaniness than mega damage.

As for deciding IW damage, I have Improvised Weapon Mastery - and it's not hard to top that out at the 2d6 for a two-handed weapon. A one handed metal club (a mace or Morningstar) does 1d8 normally - so it's easy to convince a GM that a much larger hunk of metal can do that as a two-handed weapon (and then IWM feat makes it 2d6). So I have something comparable to a great sword. I also add in Elemental Fist once per round (from Monk of the Four Winds) for a little extra damage.

I also bought a time-worn Chainsaw off of a chronicle sheet. It's fun to make ChainSaw noises and have it shoot fire (with Elemental Fist) and use it as an Improvised Weapon.

Funny Story: I got to be a Gunslinger Magus for a game. The MusketMaster decided to softball herself and gave me her extra musket. Which I used as an Improvised Melee Weapon (It's OK, I have 1 rank if Craft Weaponsmithing, I can fix it if it got dinged up a bit). With Elemental Fist (Electricity), I kept telling the Magus "See, I can Shocking Grasp SpellStrike too!"

[Gwen Smith]

There are several traits that let you use improvised weapons at reduced or no penalty: the Rough and Ready trait specifically calls out shovels, too.

The normal shovel from Ultimate Equipment weighs 8 pounds: I think that's much closer to the full-sized shovel your wife has in mind than a small camp shovel. Besides, the exact size and shape of the shovel is fluff, so she shouldn't have any issues with it unless she tries to change how it operates mechanically (e.g., get reach or something). And as a one-handed weapon, she does have the option of throwing it.

I can't see any GMs in our area giving her any trouble with it, honestly.

[Muser]

Alpine Ice Axe gets you through dr/magic. Dr/adamantine and dr/good were already listed. Buy a mithral weapon to get through dr/silver and a cold iron arrow to round out the list.

Gotta do a character with this loadout one day.

[Le Petite Mort]

nosig wrote:

yeah, my wife is looking at this for her new Oread PC. She found a figure she liked, a grave digger, and now wants to go with using a shovel (improvised Weapon) in combat (two handed - picturing it as a great club). I had to tell her yesterday that a shovel is a one handed weapon (still counts as a club though) - now she's not so happy with her Pharasman Grave Digger Alchemist (named Mud Pie)...

If you want a shovel, look no further than the Monk's Spade. It is a two handed double weapon, martial. Bypasses all weapon type DR too.

[nosig]

Le Petite Mort wrote:

nosig wrote:

yeah, my wife is looking at this for her new Oread PC. She found a figure she liked, a grave digger, and now wants to go with using a shovel (improvised Weapon) in combat (two handed - picturing it as a great club). I had to tell her yesterday that a shovel is a one handed weapon (still counts as a club though) - now she's not so happy with her Pharasman Grave Digger Alchemist (named Mud Pie)...

If you want a shovel, look no further than the Monk's Spade. It is a two handed double weapon, martial. Bypasses all weapon type DR too.

actually was showing this to her last night over dinner - and this may be the way she goes. Problems are, it's actually a weapon (not valid for "Rough and Ready" trait, and she's not Prof. with martial weapons) - not an Improvised Weapon and "it looks funny" (showed her the picture in UE...sigh, there is no winning sometime...) I think I'll get her around to using it though, maybe get her to switch off to Grenadier Archetype to get one Martial Weapon Prof. Or maybe she'll just use the current shovel (heck, she can throw a one handed weapon - so she could throw shovels. That might appeal to her...)

[grandpoobah]

nosig wrote:

actually was showing this to her last night over dinner - and this may be the way she goes. Problems are, it's actually a weapon (not valid for "Rough and Ready" trait, and she's not Prof. with martial weapons) - not an Improvised Weapon and "it looks funny" (showed her the picture in UE...sigh, there is no winning sometime...) I think I'll get her around to using it though, maybe get her to switch off to Grenadier Archetype to get one Martial Weapon Prof. Or maybe she'll just use the current shovel (heck, she can throw a one handed weapon - so she could throw shovels. That might appeal to her...)

You should totally get her a Mithril Shovel! When I think of a shiny silver shovel, I think of the ones they use to ceremoniously break ground on a major project. That would be the "special occasions" shovel!

Just some silly thoughts.

[FLite]

Go grenadier and have the double shovel and the throwing shovel.

[nosig]

grandpoobah wrote:

nosig wrote:

actually was showing this to her last night over dinner - and this may be the way she goes. Problems are, it's actually a weapon (not valid for "Rough and Ready" trait, and she's not Prof. with martial weapons) - not an Improvised Weapon and "it looks funny" (showed her the picture in UE...sigh, there is no winning sometime...) I think I'll get her around to using it though, maybe get her to switch off to Grenadier Archetype to get one Martial Weapon Prof. Or maybe she'll just use the current shovel (heck, she can throw a one handed weapon - so she could throw shovels. That might appeal to her...)

You should totally get her a Mithril Shovel! When I think of a shiny silver shovel, I think of the ones they use to ceremoniously break ground on a major project. That would be the "special occasions" shovel!

Just some silly thoughts.

O.O !

that would be kewl!
and it would count as silver...

[Kezzie Redlioness]

What about mithral waffle irons from Ultimate Equipment? Heat metal can be REALLY fun in those cases... >:)

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, you can nab Large Adamantine/Mithral/Cold Iron Durable Arrows.

[GinoA]

grandpoobah wrote:

You should totally get her a Mithril Shovel! When I think of a shiny silver shovel, I think of the ones they use to ceremoniously break ground on a major project. That would be the "special occasions" shovel!

This isn't actually legal in PFS. The special materials rules specifically talk about weapons and armor. There is no way to make anything other than a weapon, shield or armor with special materials in PFS. It's not explicitly costed out anywhere, so it doesn't exist.

The best improvised weapons of DR-bypassing I've found are the Trusty Buddy*, Mithral Manacles and a Hex Nail.

* Available on a specific chronicle.

[Brian Lefebvre]

GinoA wrote:

grandpoobah wrote:

You should totally get her a Mithril Shovel! When I think of a shiny silver shovel, I think of the ones they use to ceremoniously break ground on a major project. That would be the "special occasions" shovel!

This isn't actually legal in PFS. The special materials rules specifically talk about weapons and armor. There is no way to make anything other than a weapon, shield or armor with special materials in PFS. It's not explicitly costed out anywhere, so it doesn't exist.

The best improvised weapons of DR-bypassing I've found are the Trusty Buddy*, Mithral Manacles and a Hex Nail.

* Available on a specific chronicle.

Mithral is priced by the pound for anything that isn't armor.

[Æthernaut]

grandpoobah wrote:

The best improvised weapons of DR-bypassing I've found are the Trusty Buddy*, Mithral Manacles and a Hex Nail.

* Available on a specific chronicle.

The Mithral frying pan is a legit buy. Not as powerful, but doesn't require a chronicle sheet.

[blackbloodtroll]

Adamantine Chain is PFS legal.

Stubborn Nail is an Adamantine Piton you smack/stab people with.

As long as you don't activate it, it's a 100gp Adamantine Weapon.

[GreySector]

nosig wrote:

yeah, my wife is looking at this for her new Oread PC. She found a figure she liked, a grave digger, and now wants to go with using a shovel (improvised Weapon) in combat (two handed - picturing it as a great club). I had to tell her yesterday that a shovel is a one handed weapon (still counts as a club though) - now she's not so happy with her Pharasman Grave Digger Alchemist (named Mud Pie)...

I assume you've seen Mystery Men?

[nosig]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

nosig wrote:

yeah, my wife is looking at this for her new Oread PC. She found a figure she liked, a grave digger, and now wants to go with using a shovel (improvised Weapon) in combat (two handed - picturing it as a great club). I had to tell her yesterday that a shovel is a one handed weapon (still counts as a club though) - now she's not so happy with her Pharasman Grave Digger Alchemist (named Mud Pie)...

I assume you've seen Mystery Men?

actually - no.

both my wife and I haven't seen it - but several people have recommended it...

[grandpoobah]

GinoA wrote:

grandpoobah wrote:

You should totally get her a Mithril Shovel! When I think of a shiny silver shovel, I think of the ones they use to ceremoniously break ground on a major project. That would be the "special occasions" shovel!

This isn't actually legal in PFS. The special materials rules specifically talk about weapons and armor. There is no way to make anything other than a weapon, shield or armor with special materials in PFS. It's not explicitly costed out anywhere, so it doesn't exist.

The best improvised weapons of DR-bypassing I've found are the Trusty Buddy*, Mithral Manacles and a Hex Nail.

* Available on a specific chronicle.

The Special Materials Rule in the PFS GOTP (or whatever it's called now) read as follows:

PFS_Season7:

All basic armor, gear, items, and weapons from Chapter
6 of the Core Rulebook, including Small and Large-sized
items. This does not include equipment made from
dragonhide, but it does include equipment made from
the other special materials, such as alchemical silver
and cold iron (see the Special Materials section on
page 154 of the Core Rulebook).

It says "Equipment" not just weapons and armor. In the CRB, pricing is given for anything made of Mithril as 500gp/pound. So you could buy any (metal) item made of mithril, as long as you had a weight for the item. Adamantine does NOT have that pricing structure, which makes the Trusty Buddy so valuable and unique (there is no other way to buy such an item).

This exact wording is the same in the Season 6 guide (I did not check earlier seasons). If there is a separate ruling I am unaware of, please help me find it.

[Nefreet]

Plus, the Mithral Waffle Iron is specifically enumerated.

"food rarely sticks to a mithral waffle iron"

[BigNorseWolf]

Nefreet wrote:

Plus, the Mithral Waffle Iron is specifically enumerated.

"food rarely sticks to a mithral waffle iron"

So probably easy to get the orc brains off of it...

[Nefreet]

Why would you want to get the orc brains "off" of it?

[GinoA]

Nefreet wrote:

Why would you want to get the orc brains "off" of it?

Easier to spread on bread.

Spoiler:

I think I may have wandered into the wrong thread.

[nosig]

GinoA wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Why would you want to get the orc brains "off" of it?

Easier to spread on bread.

** spoiler omitted **

did you think you were in this thread?

canibalism thread.