ninja is a archetype of rogue?

[DigitalWino]

So I've read in various forum posts that ninja is an archetype of rogue, which makes sense. But I was wondering if anyone could point to me what book or official post that is mentioned in. That way when I go to my GM and tell him that I'm taking Rogue as my favored class and getting rogue talents, I can point out to him where it officially says that a ninja is a rogue.

[BigNorseWolf]

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lt30&page=2?Samurai-is-an-Alternate-Cavali er#65

We get there is some confusion in the terminology here. It is not an attempt to pull the wool over on anyone or trick anybody. Alternate classes are really just archtypes that have a high number of exchanges and receive a slightly more complete treatment.

We are reevaluating their presentation and naming, but lets all calm it down a bit.[/url]

And in the advanced players guide.

Sometimes an archetype exchanges
so many class features that it almost becomes a new
class itself. In such cases, the class might warrant a
representation of all of the class features, even those
that it shares with its base class. While still technically
an archetype, characters who play this class have all
the tools they need to advance their character in one
convenient location. The antipaladin, ninja, and samurai
are all examples of an alternate class.

Warning: The possibility of an unchained ninja is making paizo reconsider how they want to describe the alternate class thing. They may be changing that soon, and Marks said they were going to delete that bit in the next reprint, but this is currently how its written.

[DigitalWino]

And I suppose if I was paying attention I would have also noticed that under Role for the ninja in the ultimate combat book it even says, "The ninja is an alternate class for the rogue core class." Thank you for the prompt response though :-)

[Chris Mortika]

If an alternate class were merely an archetype, then anti-paladin would be an archetype of paladin, and a player could combine anti-paladin with paladin vows, or some paladin archetype that doesn't affect the same class features.

That sounds counter-intuitive.

[Entryhazard]

They are but they aren't.

[BigNorseWolf]

Chris Mortika wrote:

If an alternate class were merely an archetype, then anti-paladin would be an archetype of paladin, and a player could combine anti-paladin with paladin vows, or some paladin archetype that doesn't affect the same class features.

That sounds counter-intuitive.

I don't think they know how they want all of the features to interact, but an anti paladin (which is really an NPC class anyway) is not a good reason for re writing all of the other rules.

[Eryx_UK]

It really should have been an archetype rather than an alternate class.

[Cavall]

They are archtypes that take up full pages. And get iconic to boot.

Just like the Druid was always an "archtype" of the cleric in Dnd. They just took on a life of their own. Exactly no difference there.

Only in pathfinder do archtypes "matter" due to replacing abilities. They change enough to void most options but some few remain.

[DigitalWino]

I agree, they really need to come up with a better way of referring to things. I mean base class vs core class? The difference is that core classes are in the main book, base classes aren't. That doesn't make sense. The only reason why I care about the ninja is the favored class. On it's own, there are no listed favored class options for the ninja. But as an alternate for a rogue, then you can take the rogue favored class options.

[Cavall]

Oh. Well good news. You can.

[Gisher]

Here is an excellent thread on this very topic. It has lots of good references to statements from Paizo people.

[Melkiador]

It seems a bit like alternate classes were an experiment around the same time archetypes were experimental. In the end, the game went with archetypes and we haven't seen any new alternate classes in a very long time. Although, unchained classes are basically alternate classes of themselves.

[Entryhazard]

Alternate classes are Schrödinger's Archetypes

[LazarX]

DigitalWino wrote:

So I've read in various forum posts that ninja is an archetype of rogue, which makes sense. But I was wondering if anyone could point to me what book or official post that is mentioned in. That way when I go to my GM and tell him that I'm taking Rogue as my favored class and getting rogue talents, I can point out to him where it officially says that a ninja is a rogue.

No matter how many times it's said on the forums, it doesn't make a wrong statement right. Ninja is an alternate class of the rogue, NOT an archetype. You won't find "the official post" because it does not exist.

[DigitalWino]

LazarX wrote:

No matter how many times it's said on the forums, it doesn't make a wrong statement right. Ninja is an alternate class of the rogue, NOT an archetype. You won't find "the official post" because it does not exist.

Sorry... alternate class. This goes to the point of needing to come up with firm/specific terms that are uniform across the line. I mean what is the difference between an "archetype" and an "alternate class" in Pathfinder? If you look up archetype it talks about alternate class features, and if you look up alternate class, it brings up the section for alternate class features and talks about choosing an archetype and how you have to use all of it's alternate class features. So as far as I can tell, there is no difference and the two terms are interchangeable.