Familiar(s) and Class Interactions


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I've received my DM's ruling on how this will work for an upcoming campaign but am curious as to the general consensus of how this would work.

A level 1 Tattooed Sorcerer with a Figment familiar archetype takes his second level in the Witch class, to become Sorc 1/Witch 1

The Figment archetype from Familiar Folio states "a figment can never serve as a witch's familiar"

This doesn't prevent the character from taking a level in Witch, just prevents the tattoo familiar from serving as the Witch familiar/living-spellbook.

Would the character gain a second familiar to serve as his patrons conduit and familiar? Or would he be required to pick a new familiar and essentially lose the Figment archetype?


"Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level."

They are not independent, like most other class features. Thus you do not get 2 familiars.

To the interaction between a Figment Familiar and the Witch, just stick to the rules: As ong as you dont switch out the Figment you cant have your living spellbook. Which effectively makes spellcasting ... a bit difficult.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Would the interaction work differently if the Witch was the Gravewalker Archetype?


Specific trumps general. You either get two familiars and the figment doesn't benefit from your witch levels or you become incompatable with the witch class and must talk to your GM about getting rid of the figment archetype


As his GM, I too am curious if there is an official answer or not.


LtSmokin wrote:
Would the interaction work differently if the Witch was the Gravewalker Archetype?

I would think that since you are replacing the entire Familiar portion of the witch class, then that class wouldn't be considered one that grants you a familiar anymore, so you would still have the familiar, but it would still only have 1 level from the sorcerer class.


A FAQ on Animal Companions may supply some insight.

Based on that FAQ, if the two class abilities (that normally stack) are incompatible then they don't stack.

However, this is not that situation. Instead of being forced into an inappropriate familiar type due to a class ability you have selected an inappropriate familiar type.

In short, your familiar cannot have the figment archetype if you want it to function correctly for a Witch. Select a new familiar.

As for the Gravewalker archetype, Gravewalkers do not have a familiar so there is no conflict. You have your familiar ability from your other class and it does not interact in any way with a Gravewalker Witch.


I'm pretty sure the PFS ruling would say that you simply can't do this, but PFS explicitly forbids multiple "pets".

I'd see RA[IW] as the only way you can do this is to treat them as separate, unrelated class features of two different classes. A Wiz3/Wit3 gets two third-level familiars.


GinoA, the problem here is that this is not two different class features. They are the same compatible class feature.

It is the player's choice of choosing an incompatible familiar archetype that is the problem. The familiar archetype should go.

To put this another way:
Lets assume you are a Sorcerer3/Witch3 and you had a single (effectively level 6) familiar.
The familiar dies.
Can you select a new familiar with the Figment archetype? No.
Can you take two familiars to get around the figment archetype restriction? No, the classes familiar abilties stack because they are compatible so you must select a familiar that can be used for both classes.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gauss wrote:

GinoA, the problem here is that this is not two different class features. They are the same compatible class feature.

It is the player's choice of choosing an incompatible familiar archetype that is the problem. The familiar archetype should go.

To put this another way:
Lets assume you are a Sorcerer3/Witch3 and you had a single (effectively level 6) familiar.
The familiar dies.
Can you select a new familiar with the Figment archetype? No.
Can you take two familiars to get around the figment archetype restriction? No, the classes familiar abilties stack because they are compatible so you must select a familiar that can be used for both classes.

Would this situation be the same if the Witch took the Gravewalker Archetype, as that class archetype has an ability that replaces Witch's Familiar?


I already answered that LtSmokin. In that case you have one class with a Familiar and one class without. It would be no different than if you had a Sorcerer/Fighter.


LtSmokin wrote:

I've received my DM's ruling on how this will work for an upcoming campaign but am curious as to the general consensus of how this would work.

A level 1 Tattooed Sorcerer with a Figment familiar archetype takes his second level in the Witch class, to become Sorc 1/Witch 1

The Figment archetype from Familiar Folio states "a figment can never serve as a witch's familiar"

This doesn't prevent the character from taking a level in Witch, just prevents the tattoo familiar from serving as the Witch familiar/living-spellbook.

Would the character gain a second familiar to serve as his patrons conduit and familiar? Or would he be required to pick a new familiar and essentially lose the Figment archetype?

Stone Familiar

Aura faint abjuration; CL 3rd; Weight 2 lbs.
Slot none; Price 6,000 gp
DESCRIPTION

This life-sized carving of a Tiny animal is crafted from dark, rough stone. It has a hardness of 8 and 20 hit points. A witch can use the stone familiar to store up to 500 levels of spells (cantrips count as 1/2 level for this purpose). A witch can use the stone familiar to teach her living familiar any spells stored in it, and vice versa. A witch who identifies a stone familiar immediately knows what spells are stored inside it. A stone familiar is never found as randomly generated treasure with spells already stored in it.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Wondrous Item, share memory, creator must be a witch; Cost 3,000 gp

would this work? and allow you to keep your familiar? and still use your witch powers?


zainale, no it wouldn't work. The stone familiar teaches the familiar the spells, it is not a replacement for the familiar.

It basically guarantees that you do not lose your spells if you have to replace your familiar.


ohh okay


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Gauss wrote:
I already answered that LtSmokin. In that case you have one class with a Familiar and one class without. It would be no different than if you had a Sorcerer/Fighter.

Derp, must have looked over that in your previous post. Thanks for the answers!


Gauss wrote:

A FAQ on Animal Companions may supply some insight.

Based on that FAQ, if the two class abilities (that normally stack) are incompatible then they don't stack.

However, this is not that situation. Instead of being forced into an inappropriate familiar type due to a class ability you have selected an inappropriate familiar type.

In short, your familiar cannot have the figment archetype if you want it to function correctly for a Witch. Select a new familiar.

As for the Gravewalker archetype, Gravewalkers do not have a familiar so there is no conflict. You have your familiar ability from your other class and it does not interact in any way with a Gravewalker Witch.

I'm in complete agreement with everything Gauss is saying.

@LtSmokin, if your character happens to be a half-elf then the Bonded Witch archetype is another familiar-less option.


Gauss wrote:

zainale, no it wouldn't work. The stone familiar teaches the familiar the spells, it is not a replacement for the familiar.

It basically guarantees that you do not lose your spells if you have to replace your familiar.

And even if it did work, the stone familiar doesn't have rules for learning spells without a living familiar. Normal witch familiars can get spells by having your use a scroll. The stone familiar can only get them from other witch's familiars.

So unless there is another witch in your party, then you would be out of luck. In the hypothetical scenario that you could ever use a stone familiar as a failiar.

Grand Lodge

As a GM I would be very hesitant to allow a player control of more than two characters at once. The action economy afforded a player with two characters is already strong enough. I might allow the two familiars, but would pull a PFS and say that only one can be used during combat. Still, unless they had a really compelling reason I would most likely say that the figment familiar manifests as a real familiar when the character gains the witch level and loses its figment archetype.

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