Warlock and Zealot Tinkering

[Doctor Argos]

My group changed around these two subclasses and we found them to work better.

Warlock: Instead of spells, the warlock gains access to sorcerous bloodline abilities with talents.

Zealot: Instead of spells, Have inquisitor abilities in place of the spells.

[Milo v3]

That sounds considerably weaker.

[Doctor Argos]

At least with warlock it's not. The base vigilante is alot more combat ready than a sorcerer, so giving him the same command of spells as a sorcerer would lead to an overpowered armored mage situation. Besides, the whole class has a subtle superhero-ish feel and many bloodline abilities lend to the natural abilities of superheroes.

As for zealot, with all the abilities possible with talents, you'd be better off just choosing a cleric or inquisitor. Maybe adding spell-like abilities of the more 'Bread and butter' divine spells and maybe adding a weapon enhancement talent would flesh it out better.

[Tuyena]

Any time you sacrifice spells for not-spells, you're losing.

[Doctor Argos]

As I said before, this class is a take on superhero staples. Rarely do you see a superhero cast spells.
Additionally if you make a class than can pull off an armored mage playstyle from level 1, you are playing with fire.

[David Neilson]

I honestly think it would be nice if the Zealot and Warlock both cast in the same style as arcanists.That way they have more design similarity and and are both a bit different from the other six spell level casters.

[PIXIE DUST]

Doctor Argos wrote:

As I said before, this class is a take on superhero staples. Rarely do you see a superhero cast spells.

Additionally if you make a class than can pull off an armored mage playstyle from level 1, you are playing with fire.

Zitanna

Constatine
Raven
Brother Blood

I mean... really... magic is a thing in DC. In fact superman is SPECIFICALLY NOTED to be weak to magic.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

PIXIE DUST wrote:

Doctor Argos wrote:

As I said before, this class is a take on superhero staples. Rarely do you see a superhero cast spells.

Additionally if you make a class than can pull off an armored mage playstyle from level 1, you are playing with fire.

Zitanna

Constatine
Raven
Brother Blood

I mean... really... magic is a thing in DC. In fact superman is SPECIFICALLY NOTED to be weak to magic.

Or rather has no more resistance than a regular human.

[PIXIE DUST]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

PIXIE DUST wrote:

Doctor Argos wrote:

As I said before, this class is a take on superhero staples. Rarely do you see a superhero cast spells.

Additionally if you make a class than can pull off an armored mage playstyle from level 1, you are playing with fire.

Zitanna

Constatine
Raven
Brother Blood

I mean... really... magic is a thing in DC. In fact superman is SPECIFICALLY NOTED to be weak to magic.

Or rather has no more resistance than a regular human.

True. But in Supes case that is a weakness lol

[Zwordsman]

Doctor Argos wrote:

My group changed around these two subclasses and we found them to work better.

Warlock: Instead of spells, the warlock gains access to sorcerous bloodline abilities with talents.

Zealot: Instead of spells, Have inquisitor abilities in place of the spells.

Feel like that sorta just makes the warlock.. the avenger, but with claws, or spit(that doesnt' stay valid MORE SO with mystic bolt) or weird abilityes that effect spells.. when they don't get any spells?

Sorta makes it like a Geomancer from FFtactics for some bloodlines.

I mean if you wanted to drop spells for a slew of "pick your own" SLA effects?
It could be completely awesome and a highly interesting way to build a class. But it would be hard to balance but could be very cool

If you gave up spells to have various choices (ala Quingong monk; but different choices same concept) then that could be really cool. Having them "manifest" their vigilante nature in SU and SLA effects. Giving options for cones, or some of the defense, claws, teleporting(well they have that talent already), the aoe lv 9 stuff from sorcerer bloodlines (like the grave one or elemental ones).

If they built something like that? THat would be pretty amazingly fun and unique; no clue on power levelss.

Zealot I'd have no clue how to go with that.
Unless you make them like Zone lords. Using weird holy area's to do damage, "10x10 square " ala wall of holy fire.
10x10 square (gets bigger or whatever as levels) of protection. ALlies in this area gain some bonus to saves, or ac or whatever.
make them like that.. weird area controls.
It fits the idea of "zealots" at least

Honestly both ideas are sorta springboarded off of FFd20, and the occult classes' kinetcist. So I don't think either is too far out there

[SmiloDan]

I like the idea of zealots projecting an aura to affect adjacent allies, and widening it and improving it (better bonuses, more simultaneous effects) at higher levels.

[Zwordsman]

SmiloDan wrote:

I like the idea of zealots projecting an aura to affect adjacent allies, and widening it and improving it (better bonuses, more simultaneous effects) at higher levels.

I got the idea from this great work

http://www.finalfantasyd20.com/ffd20/sword-saint.html the creator(s) put a ton of work into that whole thing.

Auras in specific. Something along those lines might be pretty interesting.
I dunno how balance would work though on this sorta idea.

Also sorta where I had the idea for Warlock's non spell style (various abilities from that sytem come to mind)_

[SmiloDan]

I made a homebrew base class based on auras, but it's on an old computer that crashed. I think I posted it to the Homebrew Forum here a couple years ago. Let me see if I can find it.