I feel like classes should be based on thematic game mechanics. A light-armored Dex skirmisher is way too general.
I'm not sure. I usually think of the high concept or mechanics first. A dex fighter is not that exciting when you can play one with almost any class. What's your motivation behind this? What do you want that cannot be accomplished with existing classes?
Also, Full BAB classes have a d10 Hit Die.
Increases to base speed, dodge bonuses, AoO avoidance, extra attacks... Spring Attacks maybe, with additional features to augment it?
When I think of a character based on speed, I think of him doing extra damage by launching multiple attacks like a monk, but adding dex to damage doesn't seem to fit into that.
I think, and it sounds like, that *mobility* is the key feature of this combatant.
I would make it so that it has special abilities that allow it to avoid attacks of opportunity from movement, apart from simple acrobatics.
He should have "pounce"-like ability to get in multiple attacks. Perhaps only a few times a day or battle, etc.
Maybe he/she will use a modified stamina ability to determine the frequency these things can be used at.
To set it apart from swashbucklers, rogues, etc. I would add that this class should have abilities that can be used on the run. They can spring past an enemy with lightning speed, slash them, hinder them, etc.
NO medium armor as far as I am concerned. 2 handed weapons should be allowed, not just light/one-handers.
Fast-movement or something similar, like a sprint "surge" ability for a few rounds/day etc. is a MUST, IMO.
I was working on a speed-based class, that I called the dynamo. Its an unfinished project - one where I'm struggling to get the pictures in my head out onto the page. It can be difficult stretching a thin concept out to 20 levels. You're welcome to take a look and see if it gives you any ideas.
Dex to damage definetly. At level one.
Increases to base speed, starting at level one and ending up higher than the monk.
Give Run as a bonus feat early on, cause nobody is going to waste a feat on it.
Alluria Publishings Marauder, which has the same concept, has a list of bonus feats like Spring Attack and Lunge and gains bonus damage when using those feats. It's a little weird but works.
Better yet, you can use the mechanic from 3.5 Scout and give an attack and damage bonus whenever the character moves more than 10 feet in a round. If you use this don't give them pounce.
DO NOT make them immune to AoOs from movement. One of the best things a speedster could do for the party is run a lap around the battlefield and draw the AoOs so the others can move, cast or do other stuff without worrying about AoOs.
DO give them Mobility, Wind Stance, Lightining Stance and abilities that stack and improve upon them. Or maybe just the abilities and the players can get the feats if they want. Make so the class can draw AoOs and then laugh at their failure. If you give them talents a nice talent would be forcing the enemies to use their AoOs even if they know they can't hit or want to save them for the wizard who is casting. Maybe give it a Will save to make it balanced.
Another idea for an ability would be getting a bonus on some maneuvers if you move before them, like a +1 to CMB for every ten feet to Bullrush, Overrun, Drag and Trip. To represent add your momentum to a tackle or something like that. Maybe add Sunder with a talent. Maybe add the maneuver as a rider when you charge or Spring Attack
A bonus to initiative is not necessary, since it's a dex based clas but it can be flavorful. Maybe also an ability like the divination wizard so at high levels you always roll 20 on initiative checks. If this a Flash type of class he should be able to tie with a divination wizard.
What else... Good Ref save, Evasion either always on maybe only if you moved at least ten feet on the round before, or maybe you can spend an immediate action to take a five foot step and gain Evasion for a round.
Give it 4 or 6 skill points per level. This class seems set for being a scout and going ahead stealthted or checking for traps. Maybe some talent or archetype to add trapfinding and danger sense.
Maybe an ability to take more than one 5ft step a round or take 10ft step instead, maybe x/day or fueled by a point pool.
This is for a more or less mundane class, like the fighter or rogue. If it goes more supernatural like the barbarian or ranger we can give it some true speedster powers:
-Gain Fast Healin and later Regeneration for a few rounds a day, based on quick metabolism
-X/day use your Reflexes instead of Fort or Will, being so quick you dodge the spell, or having a quick metabolism eats the poison or disease.
-Gain the ability to run on walls and ceilings, and on top of water or other liquids, When doing a full-round movement, running, charging or withdrawing.
-Create a sonic blast as part of your movement, this blast has a ten feet radius and originates form any one square you pass during your movement. It deals 1d6 sonic damage +1d6 for five levels and deafens for one round. A Fort save halves the damage and negates the deaf condition.
-Leave a wind wall in the squares you've passed that lasts for one round.
-Spend a standard action after moving to gain the benefits of Haste, Blur or Mirror Image for a number of rounds equal to your dex modifier
-Run for a full-round to add a lot of damage and some riders to your next attack, stacks with the bonus damage if you charge or move before attacking in the next round. For that special round the world, speed of light, super punch Flash can sometimes do.
I would never have made dex to damage a thing. I would have given the class abillities that could do other things that is assosiatet to dex and speed like evade, riposte, accuracy and stuff like that. Allowing dex to be used as str is just lazy design. IMOP.
I think VM mercenario is just brainstorming. Some of them are interesting ideas, but I agree that just giving the class Dex-to-damage as a class feature is lazy design. I felt the same way about unchained rogue -- rogue finesse felt like a lazy way to make up for them being a non-spellcasting combat class with a 3/4 BAB. The game already has a few ways to get Dex-to-damage anyway. Attaching it to the class shoehorns them into one build. What if I want to play a speedy Strength character that runs around like a juggernaut?
I was working on a speed-based class, that I called the dynamo. Its an unfinished project - one where I'm struggling to get the pictures in my head out onto the page. It can be difficult stretching a thin concept out to 20 levels. You're welcome to take a look and see if it gives you any ideas.
Don't remember if there ws a thread for this one, but here is some comments:
Unerring Action: Why spend a point for something that you can gain permanently with a feat? Give it a different bonus like miss chance or make it a dodge bonus against all attacks till the beginning of your next turn.
Swift Attack and Extra Action: This ones are really nice.
Dash: That is pretty bad. If movement is going to be your schtick, it should start as good as the barbarians +10 feet at level one and end better than the monks +60 at level 18. Also allowing someone to moving 55ft as a non action is at the same time to much and underwhelming. Maybe include an option on Celerity to spend a point and do a second 5ft step or do a 10ft and later 15ft step.
Flurry: Switch the damage bonus to 7th, attack bonuses are much better than damage bonus. Maybe up the attack bonus to 15th and at 11th he can forgo flurry and gain Rapid Attack from the Mobile Fighter.
Uncanny Abilities:
Deflect Arrows: Add that he can spend celerity points to deflect more projectiles in one round. Also give Snatch Arrows if he is higher than 10 level
The Recovery Line and Dodge Ray are awesome.
Pounce: Clarify if this works with Flurry. Probably shouldn't.
Uncanny Might and Uncanny Endurance don't make any thematic sense with the rest of the class. I can see why you would want to maintain that symmetry but they don't mesh with everything else.
Everything else is pretty good.
I would never have made dex to damage a thing. I would have given the class abillities that could do other things that is assosiatet to dex and speed like evade, riposte, accuracy and stuff like that. Allowing dex to be used as str is just lazy design. IMOP.
Not allowing a melee class to do any damage is terrible design, forcing a class about speed and dexterity to have str 16 and dex 12 to function is even worse. Dex to damage should be at least a talent you can take at second level.
I would never have made dex to damage a thing. I would have given the class abillities that could do other things that is assosiatet to dex and speed like evade, riposte, accuracy and stuff like that. Allowing dex to be used as str is just lazy design. IMOP.Not allowing a melee class to do any damage is terrible design, forcing a class about speed and dexterity to have str 16 and dex 12 to function is even worse. Dex to damage should be at least a talent you can take at second level.
"I don't believe Dex-to-damage should be a class feature" "I don't want this class to do any damage."
Do you want game balance? Or do you want an ass-kicking Hollywood ninja superhero?
If it's the latter, then all bets are off; I'm sure you'll find ways to make it do whatever you want. If it's the former, then I would be very careful with this class, even to the point of questioning whether it should even be created.
DEX is already by far the most OP ability score. The only things keeping DEX characters from being gods of the battlefield are the reduced damage and limited carrying capacity. That's it. If you "fix" these two limitations, then every martial character in your game will be this new class; all other martial classes will be inferior.
Don't give it DEX to damage at anywhere near 1st level or it will be an automatic dip for every possible DEX-based build of all other classes in the game. Heck, I'd advise not to give it DEX to damage at all. A light quick DEX-based class should prevail based on its ability to hit more often rather than its ability to deal equal damage to a musclebound barbarian with a greatsword.
Don't give it class features that improve AC (like Dodge or Deflection or Shield) or that give it attack avoidance (like miss chance). If you do, make them limited at low levels and again, not available at anything close to 1st level. Sure, a DEX-based character should be better at avoiding damage than a STR-based character, but you still want them to desire some armor, even light armor. This requires them to worry a little about Carrying Capacity and makes it difficult to dump their STR to near-zero levels.
Do give it class features to make more attacks, and more AoOs, and to use DEX with CMBs, and to bypass DR more effectively, and evasion, uncanny dodge, and ways to use DEX with non-DEX skills, maybe even ways to use DEX with non-DEX saves. Make them faster (initiative and move speed). Make them mobile (make more than one attack after a move - but not FULL attacks after a move). Use precision-based damage because it already has good game mechanics for doing extra damage based on quality of the hit, not power of the hit, as well as creature types that are immune to such things. Consider Fortification but reflavored so it sounds like avoidance rather than just thick armor.
Don't make them dance...
Dex-to-damage isn't overpowered when implemented right, but I do not think it's appropriate as a class feature. Free Weapon Finesse is fine (I house rule that all characters get it for free anyway).
Substituting one ability score for another is lazy design. In this case, it basically makes a build choice for the player. That's not fun.
A well designed class feature enables/encourages gameplay. Just giving them stats and bonuses makes them a mathematically strong class, but not necessarily a fun one. Give a character a +1/+1 to attack/damage, they'll just do what they always do. Give a character a +1/+1 whenever they move at least 10 feet, then you changed the way the character plays.
The Cricket Medium (Occult Adventures Playtest) is probably a good place to start. Static damage bonus determined by the movement taken during their much-improved Spring Attack.
I wouldn't do this at all. Dex sits on so many thrones today, it's become almost laughable to make a Str based character.
Erm... You can't possibly be serious, right? The only martial class in which going dex-based is really the strongest option in most situations is the Magus, even the Daring Champion has genuine reason to go strength-based with the advent of the estoc.
Stats to damage is not good design, and easily abused. So stay away from dex to damage.
Simply introduce scaling damage as part of the class, preferably as d6's of damage.
Give them additional bonuses with movement based feats.
Give them a mirror image effect when they move twice their speed or more, to reflect the animish 'images' of moving really fast.
Let them flank with themselves via mirror images.
Give them an increased ability to Feint on the move.
Improve their Vital Strike damage.
Do NOT give them bonuses for sitting in one place and whaling on an opponent.
Increase their base speed afoot. But you're going to have to validate it if you want to exceed the monk.
Let them use the extra attack from Haste as a standard action.
Give them rounds of personal haste/level, instead of rage or something. There's your move bonus. Fast Move +10 at 1st level means they have a 70' move on demand. Perhaps give them a continuous Longstrider effect at higher levels (so it doesn't stack, but also doesn't go away).
The skirmisher archetype is that you move, make a critical attack, and retreat before taking damage. You have to build to that archetype. However, you're not going to get the DPR of a full attacker, and you shouldn't. What you get is the ability to reach out and touch someone, and not get hurt. Your Spring Attack should be dreaded and feared, but staying in melee range you're not impressive.
The OTHER interpretation is the guy who gets in a blizzard of light attacks, not doing much damage, but hitting and wearing the enemy down. This is the opposite of the standard full attacker, who does lots of damage, but is LESS likely to hit with more attacks. The problem is that this style is and has always been historically weak against armor. i.e. there's a reason people wear armor in melee. This style is most effective against lightly armored enemies.
==Aelryinth
@VM mercenario
You are the one assuming that there wouldent be any damage. There could be damage why shouldent there be?
You could gain an AC bonus against attacks based on movement, sure. Your Mobility bonus to AC could also apply against ranged attacks, meaning missile fighters are your natural targets.
"Afterimages" is all about moving so fast you seem to be where you are not. This could be ahead of you or behind you, or just seeming to shift in place. Just designate a square you also seem to be in adjacent to you, and you can be considered as occupying both squares and can flank with yourself. It becomes a form of extended reach, and if you actually have 'real' mirror images, a 'miss chance' that is more effective then a lot of AC.
Simply have the guy do his biggest damage on the single attack. If he can take the haste second attack at full BAB, that's kinda like a pounce on demand. Maybe make him take the attacks on different targets during his movement, to stay on theme.
Since he doesn't get a shield, scale his Dodge bonus by level.
==Aelryinth
Better yet, you can use the mechanic from 3.5 Scout and give an attack and damage bonus whenever the character moves more than 10 feet in a round.
My first thought upon reading DH's topic was "I wonder if he knows about the 3.5 Scout?" For those who don't know, it is a 3/4 BAB class with d8 hit die that features a "skirmish" ability instead of sneak attack. As long as the Scout moves 10 feet in a round, the Scout gets +1d6 to damage at first level, +2d6 at third, etc. I've never played one or played with one in a game to see how broken that mechanic is, but it sounds like something worth considering for the proposed class.
For that matter, I wonder if the Rogue abilities like Evasion and Uncanny Dodge should be part of the package?
Nerfing health for features has a precedent in the "Radiant Servant of Pelor" prestige class from 3.5. It knocked a Cleric down to d6 in exchange for some nifty powers.
I think it's worth pointing out that designing classes is hard. Very hard. The hardest thing to design for a game already rather difficult to design content for, so much that even professionals who get paid to write content can royally screw things up. And unlike a feat, a spell, or a simple archetype, a class often needs plenty of wet playtesting. It's especially difficult considering you don't really have any specific idea of what you want aside from a mobile fighter of some kind. I'm not even sure what the motivation behind this class is.
Have you considered just making an archetype or a feat?