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Looking for advice on a Summoner

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I'm looking for some advice on the Master Summoner archetype. My goal is to utilize a strong summoned monster to tank and use my eidolon as a wand buddy.

My party members like doing what they want and, spoiler, we lost in Sandpoint against the giants and their dragon ally. They got what they came for and left. The town is half-burnt, but we did evacuate everyone that didn't want to stay.

So with that said, I'd like to play tank & caster. Though I'm not sure what might be the best build for this campaign (Rise of the Runelords). Any advice on spells, gear, or feats would be helpful.
Grand Lodge

First suggestion, the Summoning rings. Gaining more options to summon is always a good thing.

Div and Agothian were the 2 I believe I singled out in terms of strength (for PFS, so I did not include monsters at higher then SM6). Div has the evil eye guy with the great bestow curse. Useful as a debuffer. Agothian has all that lay on hands fun to heal the party. Since the duration becomes so long, they will defiantly be around after combat to unload that healing too.

I don't know if I can summon good-aligned creatures as a neutral evil character.
Grand Lodge

Alignment restrictions only applies to divine characters.

Your GM may say otherwise however. Had a gm once who said there were no Good Outsiders, so I could not get a silvesheen familiar.

So if I were to summon a Div or Agothian creature, it'd be a 'fallen' version, with the fiendish template?
Grand Lodge

No, Divs and Agothians are outsiders in their own right. Divs are NE where as Agothians are NG. They are also not normally on the SM lists. They only become an option with the Ring of Summon Affinity. You will want one for Divs and another for Agothians.
Grand Lodge

Divs, despite the name, are evil.

The Agathion more likely would be a normal Agathion, pissed at being compelled to work for an evil master, and would strive to pervert your orders any way it could, especially if it can do good in the process.

(You say heal me, and it casts stabilize (a healing spell) you say lay hands on me, and it grabs you, etc.)

Hmmm, this is an interesting idea. I tend to play a fairly generic summoner, with my eidolon tanking and me buffing him and casting, so I don't know how much help I'll be in this. If he's gonna be your UMD buddy then I advise the ability score boost evolution to charisma. In addition, if he's not going to be entering the melee then he can take a few of the spell-like abilities evolutions. One thing I always do at later levels with my eidolon is give him sacrifice and fast healing and concentrate quite a bit on my eidolons con score. This can help greatly with healing since the cleric or whatever type of healer you use won't be needed to use up spells to heal you once imminent threats are gone.

Oh wait, you playing chained or unchained?

chained, unless my GM says otherwise. Unchained versions are not compatible with any of the archetypes for the chained versions.
Grand Lodge

Actually, a lot of the archtypes are compatible. I don't remember if master summoner is though.

The tactic I'm going for is to summon 1 or 2 big tanky monsters, and I and my Eidolon will support them. I don't want to control the fight, just sway the fight in our favor. Group tactics are poor because we don't coordinate that well. We're either spread too thin, or not thinking out our tactics.

Pushing when we should've run, running when we had the advantage, Witch putting herself in front of the fighter. It's sorta how my Orc Fighter died. He took a critical hit to the chest and died from the damage, noone, not even the paladin thought to heal him, but he was doing his best to block the staircase. Every buff was dispelled with a damnable ogre mage.

I'm kind of hoping to compensate for a lack of group function with this character. They can still enjoy the game and I can as well. I feel good when we do good, but we can't exactly do good when everyone wants to do what they want to do without considering the group dynamic.

We've got a Rogue, Witch, Zen Archer, an Elemental Sorcerer (who isn't always there), and a Goblin Bard (NPC), then my Dwarven Untouchable/Primalist Bloodrager.

I am playing a master summoner at present and its working well.

A few points-

1 Half Elf Summoners are usually best.

2 My feats went-
Level 1 Summon Evil Monster
Level 2 Augmented Summoning class bonus feat.
Level 3 Superior Summons

Really ramps up the summoning. Pretty much mandatory.

3 You can further increase the power of your summons with Evolved Summons and Harrowed Summons. Both of these have a pre-req however.

4 There is a somewhat dated but otherwise good build for a master summoner by mercurial around on the net, including here. Worth a look.

What level are you and how much do you have to spend? It will help with giving advice.

And who are your other party members. It will allow some consideration of how to do the eidelon. I am playing in Curse of the Crimson Throne and intended my eidelon as a scout with some skills. Then I acquired a pseudo dragon companion that is.. a much better scout. I am still considering where to take the eidelon now.

Human Master Summoner;
Level 10, 62,000 gold.

The Campaign is Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition

Party Members are Zen Archer, Hedge Witch/Inquisitor, Elemental Sorcerer, Rogue, and a Bard (currently MIA ingame).

So far, the feats I originally had in mind were Improved Initiative, Spell Focus: Conj, Craft Wondrous Item, Augment Summoning, Combat Casting, Superior Summoning, and Greater Spell Focus: Conj., and that's if I take up the Master Summoner Archetype.

If I can get it approved by my GM, I'll get Summon Evil Monster instead of Combat Casting.

They recently changed this class in the Unbound supplement.

Are you guys playing that version or the old one?

I never saw the old one as overpowered unless you compared it to a character with no magic. Against a full caster they don't compare as well.

Though if you can master all the critters a Master Summoner can pull out of his keister you are closer than just about anyone else.

I've got access to both versions. So far, the differences are mainly in the Eidolon and how it's built. Unchained, you can select a subtype of outsider, ontop of that, you gain bonuses, but are limited to what the subtype has to offer.

I'm actually surprised there isn't an Aeon subtype for followers of Nethys.
BlingerBunny wrote:

Human Master Summoner;

Level 10, 62,000 gold.

The Campaign is Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition

Party Members are Zen Archer, Hedge Witch/Inquisitor, Elemental Sorcerer, Rogue, and a Bard (currently MIA ingame).

So far, the feats I originally had in mind were Improved Initiative, Spell Focus: Conj, Craft Wondrous Item, Augment Summoning, Combat Casting, Superior Summoning, and Greater Spell Focus: Conj., and that's if I take up the Master Summoner Archetype.

If I can get it approved by my GM, I'll get Summon Evil Monster instead of Combat Casting.

Hedge Witch?

If 3rd party classes are allowed, take a look at the 3rd party Summoner Archetype, the Celestial Commander.

It's literally a better Master Summoner than the Master Summoner. You lose out on a bit of versatility if you were originally neutral, but what you gain is FAR greater than what you lose (count as a Divine Class, get a Domain, qualify for Divine Protection? Sign me up right now!)

Hedge Witch is an Archetype available in UM, also she's multi-classing, so any cure spells she casts are only at a xd8+8.

Also, I can't be a Celestial Commander as my character is Neutral Evil. She's going to use the party to take control of an ancient city. She knows it exists, but she's not sure where it is. She only knows what she's read in books.

I'll pass the idea on to my GM, but other players would be better off not knowing my end goal.

Back to the point, what I want to do is Summon about 1 or 2 monsters to handle the tank position. The other idea is using the Eidolon as the tank and support it with every fiber of my talent.

He could mean the Witch Archetype, which is Paizo

Hedge Witch
BlingerBunny wrote:

Human Master Summoner;

Level 10, 62,000 gold.

The Campaign is Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition

Party Members are Zen Archer, Hedge Witch/Inquisitor, Elemental Sorcerer, Rogue, and a Bard (currently MIA ingame).

So far, the feats I originally had in mind were Improved Initiative, Spell Focus: Conj, Craft Wondrous Item, Augment Summoning, Combat Casting, Superior Summoning, and Greater Spell Focus: Conj., and that's if I take up the Master Summoner Archetype.

If I can get it approved by my GM, I'll get Summon Evil Monster instead of Combat Casting.

Why do you need GM approval to take Summon Evil Monster? Feats look sensible. There is also extra summons.

On the eidelon, I suggest taking skills lacking in the party. As well as use magic device. Maybe a small serpentine shape for its mobility.

Items- get a Mneumonic Vestment. Costs 5K, but it will more than pay for itself, as it allows you to use any spell on your list to level 4 at present if you have a scroll, w/o using the scroll. Craft wondrous item- see the point?
Rod of Maximise.
Mithril chain shirt.
Conjuring affinity rings as mentioned, but look at your extra options with summon evil monster first.
Get everyone in the party, incl you and your eidelon, something that gives a luck bonus then summon Pugwampis.

Hope I have been some help.
Grand Lodge
BlingerBunny wrote:

I've got access to both versions. So far, the differences are mainly in the Eidolon and how it's built. Unchained, you can select a subtype of outsider, ontop of that, you gain bonuses, but are limited to what the subtype has to offer.

I'm actually surprised there isn't an Aeon subtype for followers of Nethys.

Actually, the largest practical difference is the spell list. Haste at 4th level vs 7th level is a big difference.

Whatever the case, I'd like to focus on the Master Summoner idea. Thanks to Joynt for recommending gear. The Mneumonic Vestment could also work with a book of written spells as well, correct?

Also, GM approval because it's a feat in Corruption of Champions, so I can't easily pull it out without buying a copy.

Now to set up stat-blocks for monsters and my Eidolon. Also, where do I find the small size evolution?

Stats: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 22 after human bonus and ability score boosts.

Alright, Feats are as such;

1 Summon Evil Monster, Spell Focus: Conj
2 Augment Summoning
3 Superior Summoning
5 Improved Initiative
7 Craft Wondrous Item
9 Greater Spell Focus: Conj.

Gear: Mneumonic Vestment, Mithril Shirt, Ring of Summoning Affinity Div & Daemon, Handy Haversack, Headband of Cha +4, Belt of Phys +2 (Dex & Con),

Anything else?
Grand Lodge

small size isn't an evolution. It is just under the rules for building an eidolon. I think it is under the base forms.
BlingerBunny wrote:

Thanks to Joynt for recommending gear. The Mneumonic Vestment could also work with a book of written spells as well, correct?

Also, GM approval because it's a feat in Corruption of Champions, so I can't easily pull it out without buying a copy.

Gear: Mneumonic Vestment, Mithril Shirt, Ring of Summoning Affinity Div & Daemon, Handy Haversack, Headband of Cha +4, Belt of Phys +2 (Dex & Con),

You are welcome. And you are right about the spellbook. I am playing a master summoner at a lower level and plan on getting a contribution from my fellow PC for the Mnemonic Vestment. It will save the party a fortune in the long run, with craft wondrous item.

If you go here- http://www.d20pfsrd.com/ on the net, you can search all the feats.

You really, really want summon evil monster. The only monster you can summon with the 2 rings you had planned to get is the Custodaemon that you can't with summon evil monster. You can summon a level 3 critter once/ day with each. Not sure its worth it for the rings, esp the Div one.

And go to that site and search up Pugwampis and look at the evil suggestion in my last post. Your GM may have a fit, but think about it.

You wanted a wand for the eidelon. There are a host of excellent wands and staves for you also.

So with that feat, the rings have no practical benefit. Alright so forget the rings in that case, I could replace them both with a ring of Prot +2 instead.

That Pugawampi thing is pretty cool, but the only way I can think of to give a group luck bonus is with the bard, who is currently MIA. During the aftermath, they couldn't find him.

I noticed that Petitioners are in the mix too, how would I summon those? Also, where can I find the stat blocks for the summons? What creatures do you guys recommend I summon for the tanking situation?

I've got a list of spells, so far, and I'm wondering if any adjustment is needed.

0 - Detect Magic, Read Magic, Guidance, Message, Mending, Mage Hand
1 - Grease, Shield, Protection from Evil, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person,
2 - Haste, Invisibility, Slow, Detect Thoughts, Glitterdust
3 - Dispel Magic, Spiked Pit, Dimension Door, Fly
4 - Wall of Stone, Mass Bull Strength

The rings do a bit, but not a lot if you have summon evil monster.

Go to www.d20pfsrd.com. Search for Summon Monster and Summon Evil Monster, then there is a link to the stats. Love that site, its got most everything pathfinder in the one place.

Consider the Summon Evolved monster Feat, perhaps for Greater Spell Focus: Conj.

Spells look OK. It depends on the campaign to a degree, but Teleport is excellent utility.

It's about now, that I'm feeling like I took a bigger bite than I can handle. So I'm going to simplify the idea, focus on my Eidolon and support and buff it.
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