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Recently encountered a situation in a scenario where a character with significant Strength (16) was pushed into the Heavy Encumbrance range when he tried to help someone else carry their gear. RP situation, that's not where the question is at...
How does one acquire a Handy Haversack?
Does it need to be on a chronicle sheet?
If so, does it only apply to the character that has it on their chronicle sheet?
Cost is not the issue, PFS accessibility is.
Thank you very much for your time.
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Handy Haversacks follow the same rules as any other magical item. Read the Guide to Organized Play to learn how that works.
So having played a character that had access to one via chronicle (on a chronicle I can never play again with another character--ie, not 'evergreen') means that none of my other characters will ever have access to that item?
You may always purchase the following items or
equipment so long as you’re in an appropriately sized
settlement (see above).
• All basic armor, gear, items, and weapons from Chapter
6 of the Core Rulebook, including Small and Large-sized
items. This does not include equipment made from
dragonhide, but it does include equipment made from
the other special materials, such as alchemical silver
and cold iron (see the Special Materials section on
page 154 of the Core Rulebook). All mundane (completely
nonmagical) weapons, armor, equipment, and
alchemical gear found in any other source that is legal
for play are considered always available.
• +1 weapons (2,000 gp + 300 for the masterwork weapon
cost + item cost)
• +1 armor (1,000 gp + 150 for the masterwork armor cost
+ item cost)
• +1 shields (1,000 gp + 150 for the masterwork armor
cost + item cost)
• Potions and oils of 0- or 1st-level spells at caster level
1st (50 gp or less)
• Scrolls of 0- or 1st-level spells at caster level 1 (50 gp
or less)
• Wayfinder (50% discount—250 gp; see page 299 of The
Inner Sea World Guide)
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is
restricted to purchasing additional items from his
accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his
fame. Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so
on that are outside of these lists are not available for
purchase at any time.
If so, is it legit to look up the chronicle for a given module in advance to see *what* the 'loot' is going to be, and make a determination of being able to play/not play based on what the 'haul' is going to be?
You would just need the fame to get it.
Edit what he said.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Handy Haversacks follow the same rules as any other magical item. Read the Guide to Organized Play to learn how that works.So having played a character that had access to one via chronicle (on a chronicle I can never play again with another character--ie, not 'evergreen') means that none of my other characters will ever have access to that item?
Like I said, read the Guide to Organized Play to learn what items you can buy. As the others mentioned, it depends on your Fame score.
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Here is a not-well-known tool that players can use to shop via their fame score; all results in this table are PFS legal items. This is intended as a helpful way to 'shop' by fame score and to see what is legally purchasable.
Magic Item Table with Fame Slider
Click on the 'Fame' button to reveal a little slider. There are two circles on the slider you can grab with your mouse to set your min and your max. Dragging the max down to 15 gives you this:
Magic Items for 15 Fame or Less
From there you can type anything into the search block, and it will search those items. Type 'Handy' into the search block, and this useful bag will show up. It also lists the source (which of course you must own to legally use the item in PFS).
As a final note I'll mention that Paizo's additional resources always has the final word on what items are PFS legal or not; it's always a good idea to ping new purchases against the additional resources 'just to be on the safe side'.
Hope this helps!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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... is it legit to look up the chronicle for a given module in advance to see *what* the 'loot' is going to be, and make a determination of being able to play/not play...
No.
There's been a recent thread about that topic. It has been contentious, but I think most people agree that players who read the Chronicle sheet ahead of time, or any other part of the scenario ahead of time, need to let the table GM know about that. Your PC absolutely can't act on any information you find out by "reading ahead". And the GM has the right to not allow you to play, if you didn't have a good reason to spoil that information for yourself.
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The confusion came in over 'what you can buy 'Always Available' versus 'What your reputation (Fame) indicates to the Society and what they'll make available to you if you pay for it'.
As far as your comment, Nefreet, that was part of the confusion. I've got five active lower-level characters of which *one* has run across a Haversack on *one* chronicle.
That in turn led to the inquiry about 'how does one get one outside of chronicle'.
Chris' comment was what I thought it was, it's what my 'gut' reaction would be, but without the 'fame option' I was getting confused.
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Is there a way it can be better worded in the next iteration of the Guide?
It makes sense to us, who've been around for years, but can you suggest any language that might make it more readily understandable for someone who's new?
within her faction. For every 10 points of Fame, a character
gains a cumulative +1 bonus on Diplomacy checks made
against members of her faction. Her Fame might also
afford her certain titles and incidental privileges and
allow her to purchase spells and items from her faction
between scenarios. A character’s Fame score determines the
maximum gp value of any items she can purchase from her
faction, as detailed in Table 5–3 below. The character must
still actually spend the gold to receive the desired item. For
double weapons, calculate the cost of each end separately
when considering Fame purchasing limits.
Perhaps something along the line of 'Legal Campaign items may be acquired via Prestige/Fame/coin combination that are not on chronicles.'?
I'm not having a gross conceptual error here, am I?
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I think part of the confusion is that the instructions on acquiring new equipment appear to be very spread out. There is the section on 'always available' items, which is separate from the section on Chronicle sheets, which is separate from the section on Fame.
I believe the document could be more clear in this regard if it only had an introductory block before these areas (or, somewhere) that ties them all together. A "here is how you can get new stuff" block.
For example:
Acquiring new magic items and equipment is a powerful way to increase the overall strength and functionality of your character [additional introductory fluff text goes here].
Not all gear and magic items may be purchased outright; the Pathfinder Society uses a unique reward system which dictates which items are available to be purchased by your character. There are multiple ways for your character to acquire new items, and these are outlined below.
- Many items are deemed 'Always Available'. An item which is on the 'Always Available' list is just that; you may purchase such an item at any point in your adventuring career regardless of character level or fame. Please see chapter 5 of this document to read more about which items are on this list.
- Items may also be purchased in between gaming sessions based upon your current Fame. Your character's Fame will dictate the maximum value of magic items that you are permitted to purchase. For more information on Fame and the upper limits of spending, please see table 5-3 in chapter 5 of this document. In addition, chapter 5 also contains more information on Fame, how it accumulates, and its function within the Golarion universe.
- Lastly, items may be also purchased if they are listed on a Chronicle Sheet that you were awarded for successfully completing a Pathfinder Society scenario, module, or adventure path. Items shown on Chronicle Sheets are not limited or guided by your Fame; they can be purchased at any time it is appropriate to do so (e.g., in between game sessions).
- Keep in mind that items may belong to more than one list of those shown above. A Handy Haversack, for example, may appear on a Chronicle Sheet, yet is also available for purchase so long as the player has at least 13 fame to their credit. The benefits of such items being on Chronicle Sheets is that they permit the player to purchase the item regardless of fame, which may be beneficial if awarded early in the player's career.
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Is there a way it can be better worded in the next iteration of the Guide?
It makes sense to us, who've been around for years, but can you suggest any language that might make it more readily understandable for someone who's new?
Just for the record, I asked pretty much the same question on these boards when I first started 3 years ago. PFS uses 3 separate systems to figure out what you can purchase: Always Available, Chronicles and Fame. I had played LG, which uses Always Available and Chronicles. And LFR, which used Always Available. So how Fame worked with the other two was a bit confusing.
Maybe if they were spelled out in a numbered or bullet list like Tabletop Giant mentioned, rather than just explained over multiple paragraphs it might work better.
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I like TG's version, but would add one rider to the Chroncile section, which would be a short explanation of Limit: X items, where you can buy said item, but only up to a total quantity purchased of X. This usually applies to poisons and magical ammo, although some non-standard consumables of other types may have this limit, as well.
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Without going to any particular weighting, the lack of consolidation is what prompted me to ask the question, and it sounds like others have had the same issue. If there were some way to unify the purchasing methods 'under one section' that might make it a bit easier, and possibly allow for streamlining and maybe even a reduction of text -- thus saving space/paper for those who print it out?
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Without going to any particular weighting, the lack of consolidation is what prompted me to ask the question, and it sounds like others have had the same issue. If there were some way to unify the purchasing methods 'under one section' that might make it a bit easier, and possibly allow for streamlining and maybe even a reduction of text -- thus saving space/paper for those who print it out?
The guides getting a big revamp for the next season.
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That would be counterproductive to consolidating the Guide, IMO, and it highlights why this isn't an easy thing to do. Prestige Points aren't just useful for getting free items, and they need an entire section to describe them. If you add a 4th bullet point concerning just Prestige Points, you're reprinting something that's already been covered elsewhere, and more pages accumulate.
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Some thoughts:
p20 Spoils of War:A sentence indicating the other sections that deal with acquiring gear. "(see also the sections on purchasing gear (pgXi), fame (pgXii) and prestige (pgXiii))"
p23 always available items: The last sentence should be clearer, and about what you CAN purchase, not what you can't.
Beyond the gear noted above, your character can purchase additional items from his accumulated Chronicle sheets, or purchase items to a value based on his fame (see pgXX). Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so on that are outside of these lists are not available for purchase at any time.
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That would be counterproductive to consolidating the Guide, IMO, and it highlights why this isn't an easy thing to do. Prestige Points aren't just useful for getting free items, and they need an entire section to describe them. If you add a 4th bullet point concerning just Prestige Points, you're reprinting something that's already been covered elsewhere, and more pages accumulate.
Add the bullet point then reference to the table/chart just like points 1 and 2. That way when someone looks for a big heading on purchasing they can read these 4 or 5 points and know both the number of ways to get items and where to look for the full rules. The guide should be written for the player prepping for his or her first game or excited about her second one instead of those of us who have been here for the entire run.
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If you add a 4th bullet point concerning just Prestige Points, you're reprinting something that's already been covered elsewhere, and more pages accumulate.
Think of it as summarizing - not reprinting. It is valid and actually quite helpful in instructional writing to reprint highlights for the sake of emphasis and clarity.
Taking into account some of the above suggestions, the block could be something like this (new stuff in bold):
- Many items are deemed 'Always Available'. An item which is on the 'Always Available' list is just that; you may purchase such an item at any point in your adventuring career regardless of character level or fame. Please see the section on 'Always Available Items' in chapter 5 of this document to read more about which items are on this list.
- Items may also be purchased in between gaming sessions based upon your current Fame. Your character's Fame will dictate the maximum value of magic items that you are permitted to purchase. For more information on Fame and the upper limits of spending, please see table 5-3 in chapter 5 of this document. In addition, chapter 5 also contains more information on Fame, how it accumulates, and its function within the Golarion universe.
- Items may also be acquired through the expenditure of prestige. Prestige is an expendable resource which can be traded directly for gear and magic items. A single prestige may be utilized to acquire any item of 150 gold or less, and two points may be spent to acquire any item for 750 gold or less. Prestige points may be spent for other services as well; for more information on prestige points, how your character may accumulate them, and the various perks they can provide, please review the 'Fame and Prestige' section within chapter 5 of this document.
- Lastly, items may be also purchased if they are listed on a Chronicle Sheet that you were awarded for successfully completing a Pathfinder Society scenario, module, or adventure path. Items shown on Chronicle Sheets are not limited or guided by your Fame; they can be purchased at any time it is appropriate to do so (e.g., in between game sessions). Please do be aware that some items are listed on Chronicle Sheets in limited quantities, and may not be purchased over the prescribed amount.
- Keep in mind that items may belong to more than one list of those shown above. A Handy Haversack, for example, may appear on a Chronicle Sheet, yet is also available for purchase so long as the player has at least 13 fame to their credit. The benefits of such items being on Chronicle Sheets is that they permit the player to purchase the item regardless of fame, which may be beneficial if awarded early in the player's career.
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"The society is an exploration organization, not a corner market. Factions reserve access to their rare and powerful items for tried and true field agents. With some exceptions, you cannot buy items who's value exceeds your purchase limit as determined by by your fame (see xx xx )
You can exceed your fame limit for purchases of
-Mundane and alchemical Equipment
-Mundane weapons and armor (including special materials other than dragonhide)
-Upgrading mundane weapons and armor to Magical weapons and armor up to a +1 bonus
-Potions, oils, and scrolls of first level items
-Items purchased with prestige.
-any item found on a chronicle sheet.
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This thread is kind of highlighting the questions I've had about Prestige in general before someone far more experienced pulled me to the side and talked to me at GenCon and over forums aside from the question that sparked this thread. The second-hand conversation wasn't entirely clear on how it worked.
Gut feeling? Please implement some of the above so the language is clearer without losing important issues.
The added benefit?
If folks can see WHAT their Prestige points will do:
They may just be focused on trying to complete the mission on the table with a bit more care and not resort to truly idiotic activity.
They may feel a bit more involvement with Society play as a whole.
It'll help explain why a bunch of people go after the Wand of Cure Light after the first fully successful scenario.
It may even make the first few scenarios a bit more survivable for 'squishier' classes/archetypes without resorting to the (and I'm not making this up) "Everyone play a barbarian at level one, then respec" that I heard tossed around a few times at GenCon last year.
Just food for thought?
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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I feel like there are enough first level degenerate builds in different classes out there that there should be plenty of variety... :)
Actually, I haven't seen a lot of people playing degenerate firsts in our area. Pretty much anyone with the system mastery to do that is probably GMing enough, that they don't need to. And anyone else probably is testing builds and tweaking characters and doesn't want to waste the valuable first level "oh wait, that doesn't work" testing.
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It may even make the first few scenarios a bit more survivable for 'squishier' classes/archetypes without resorting to the (and I'm not making this up) "Everyone play a barbarian at level one, then respec" that I heard tossed around a few times at GenCon last year.
I feel like that is dirty pool and should be discouraged.
Here is a thought - what if the free level 1 respec only applied to a player's first three characters? Or less than three, or more than three - just so long as it is finite.
The intent of the respec - as I understand it - is to cut new players some slack with the understanding that they may make questionable character build decisions during their first level due to inexperience or other issues. Once at least three characters are made, I think we can safely assume the player 'mostly' knows what they are doing and then perhaps we could end the free rerolls at that time.
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The intent of the respec - as I understand it - is to cut new players some slack with the understanding that they may make questionable character build decisions during their first level due to inexperience or other issues. Once at least three characters are made, I think we can safely assume the player 'mostly' knows what they are doing and then perhaps we could end the free rerolls at that time.
Even an experienced player can make a mistake, or get called in to fill out a lowbie table at the last minute with nothing ready to go.
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Even an experienced player can make a mistake, or get called in to fill out a lowbie table at the last minute with nothing ready to go.
The intent of the respec - as I understand it - is to cut new players some slack with the understanding that they may make questionable character build decisions during their first level due to inexperience or other issues. Once at least three characters are made, I think we can safely assume the player 'mostly' knows what they are doing and then perhaps we could end the free rerolls at that time.
You're right of course. I'm loaded with mistakes.
What if a player was restricted to the number of rebuilds then - perhaps three? They could use them on any character - first, fifth, twentieth - but there is a finite number of them.
The problem with my suggestion is that it would be difficult to enforce and could easily be ignored by many players - it would be difficult to track when someone has rebuilt their level 1 or not. Level 1 rebuild exploitation may just be a necessary evil to tolerate.
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Why limit the rebuild at all?
Because dirty pool should be curtailed where it is reasonable to do so.
That said - I don't feel significantly strongly about the issue and am speaking pretty casually here. Just throwing out ideas. My current planned reaction on anyone telling me they are exploiting the rebuild rule is to sigh at them real melodramatically, and maybe throw a potato chip at them if I have one available.
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Why limit the rebuild at all?Because dirty pool should be curtailed where it is reasonable to do so.
That said - I don't feel significantly strongly about the issue and am speaking pretty casually here. Just throwing out ideas. My current planned reaction on anyone telling me they are exploiting the rebuild rule is to sigh at them real melodramatically, and maybe throw a potato chip at them if I have one available.
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Why limit the rebuild at all?Because dirty pool should be curtailed where it is reasonable to do so.
That said - I don't feel significantly strongly about the issue and am speaking pretty casually here. Just throwing out ideas. My current planned reaction on anyone telling me they are exploiting the rebuild rule is to sigh at them real melodramatically, and maybe throw a potato chip at them if I have one available.
You would also run into problems defining, in general, what the rebuild means.
So, is it a rebuild if you GMed some of the evergreens, and don't actually play or build the PC until they have enough XP to be second level (or higher?)
How about the forced rebuilds? I have at least one PC who has been hit by his original class-and-archetype choices getting banned at some point, like Undead Lord for Cleric, Synthesist for APG Summoner, or even APG Summoner if not played above 1st level.
I still have my boon race Dhampir sitting on the sidelines waiting for me to make my final choice for what he will be, forevermore, now that the version I played of him through 1st level, Undead Lord, is no longer legal; for PFS. He has 3 XP, so he is at the "Is this your final answer?" stage, and no way to try different builds with him, anymore.
