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Barbarian / Martial Artist Monk Build experiences

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Hello,

First time posting on the forum here.
I've read the barbarian guides, and read threads about barbarian/monk builds. I am interested in more experiences with builds like this, before really devoting myself to smashing skulls with only fists instead of with a greatsword.

My character concept is a Conan like bezerker. No armor (for maximum fluff and sexiness), breaking stuff and badguys with bare hands and greatswords. I have an idea for a build, but I'm not sure about some things. It's my first pathfinder character and would like some advice.

- I like to optimize my characters, but I'm mainly looking for experiences about what choises (feats/ragepowers and other combinations) are the most fun to play!
- Maybe just a level 1 or 2 dip in monk? Is taking no monk levels at all doable for an unarmored type?
- Am I really missing something if it's a non Come Get Me style Barbarian, with fewer rage powers?

Stats:
STR 20 (+2)
DEX 17 (+2)
CON 18
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 11

Level 1
- (Invulnerable barb1 )
- Dual talent (+2 DEX)
- Power attack

Level 2
- (monk1)
- Improved grapple/dodge?
- Unarmed strike

Level 3
- (monk2)
- Combat reflexes
- Dragon style

Level 4
- (barb2)
- RAGE POWER
- Superstitious?

Level 5
- (monk3)
- Dragon Ferocity

Level 6
- (monk4)
-

Level 7
- (barb3)
- Raging Vitality

Level 8
- (barb4)
- Reckless Abandon?

Level ... Not sure how long the campaing will go on.

Thanks!

Nerd Rant

Conan wasn't a berserker. He was either a Rogue or a Slayer.

The idea of Barbarians as ragers comes much later than Conan himself.

Criticism

Look, that could work, but Martial Artist really provides you with nothing other than a few extra feats (TWF, Imp. Unarmed Strike) and some extra AC... both of which you could get by just sticking to Barb.

Answers

1. Ideally, considering that as a Barbarian you can naturally get Pounce, I think the best featline out there for you is Dragon Style, up to Dragon Ferocity. You seem to be taking that, so you are good.

2. Very doable. If you are playing with Pathfinder Unchained, Monk VMC has a ton of synergy with Barbarian... Imp Unarmed Strike and scaling damage at level 3, Evasion at level 7, mini-Ki Pool at level 11th, bonus AC at level 15th, Imp. Evasion at level 19th. Not bad at all. You'd have less feats to play around, but you honestly don't need much except Dodge, Power Attack, and the Dragon Style featline. Of course, you'd want the Savage Barbarian archetype (for extra AC while unarmored) and perhaps the Savage Technologist archetype (not so much because of the gun abilities - which are also fun - but more so for the extra AC).

3. Just lower progression.

Thanks for your reply!

Conan The Barbarian is not a barbarian? Oh my... ;)

Just sticking with barb looks tempting, but I'm willing to give the multiclass a try. Maybe just a 1 or 2 level dip in monk. 5th would give me the rage cycle ability though, but it's more a roleplay thing then making the ultimate build.

Savage looks good but giving up DR is harsh.. I'll look into the savage technologist.

I just bought the CRB and APG, I'm not familiar with unchained.

Did you ever play a barb/monk?

I have, I went with Martial Artist X with 2 levels of Sea Reaver Barbarian for a pirate campaign (I could use the d12 hit dice at first level, and seeing through fog allowed us to use an Obscuring Mist strategy).

The Savage Technologist and the Savage Barbarian pair up well because the massive Dexterity bonus the Savage Technologist gives you usually makes you have too much dexterity to actually want armor. With a 17 in DEX like you have, with rage, that puts you in 21 Dexterity... meaning that 1 more point in Dexterity and you are already at maximum dodge capacity. Considering the Savage Barbarian piles on that with more and more AC bonuses, it can help to make the fastest and hardest to catch Barbarian... and also one with an obscene amount of attacks of opportunity and good ranged hits with scavenged guns.

Variant Multiclassing for Unchained allows you to give up your feats at 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th and 19th levels for class features.

Here's the Monk one:

Quote:

Monk

A character who chooses monk as his secondary class gains the following secondary class features.

Armor: At 1st level, he loses all his secondary monk abilities when wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load.

Unarmed Strike: At 3rd level, he gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and the unarmed damage of a monk of his character level – 2.

Evasion: At 7th level, he gains evasion.

Ki Pool: At 11th level, he gains the ki pool class feature of a monk of his character level – 2, with a number of ki points equal to 1/2 his character level. He only ever gains ki pool (lawful) if he is of lawful alignment.

AC Bonus: At 15th level, he gains a +3 dodge bonus to AC.

Improved Evasion: At 19th level, he gains improved evasion.
Bazutar wrote:


Conan The Barbarian is not a barbarian? Oh my... ;)

Conan the Barbarian was a Cimmerian, a northern tribe that were considered barbarians by the civilized people. But that was his race, his class would be fighter. Though it COULD be argued he multi classed and started as a barb and then added fighter levels (also could be argued he had some rogue levels).

It looks like you have a great stat array for this, although I would suggest swapping the DEX and WIS scores as the AC is unaffected while improving WIS for use with exploit weakness at 4th level monk if you get more than 1 or 2 monk levels.

I found the boar style line with combat reflexes, improved trip and vicious stomp to be lots of fun. Combining that with the bloodrager option allowed the character to carry around a wand of true strike and do some cool big monster tripping followed by vicious stomping. Power attack and furious focus are useful to get, especially when using the big weapon.

The character I had focused on monk levels with only a one level dip into bloodrager. I found the monk abilities to be more fun to get than rage powers, although a 2 level dip into bloodrager nets the uncanny dodge ability, which is useful. At 5th level monk upon getting Extreme Endurance, the character can rage cycle without getting fatigued. Martial artist monk can also get weapon specialization and greater weapon specialization as monk level counts as the level prerequisites for weapon specialization. Exploit weakness at 4th level is great too. I also liked having the super speed that came with bloodrager/barbarian plus monk speed.

The flurry feature can really increase the number of attacks you get, especially at high levels. Put a seven-branched sword or nine-ring broadsword into the character's hands and that is a lot of damage output, especially if you crit and your chances of critting when you get 4 or 5 attacks per round are higher. Improved critical on your big weapon would also help with that.

I took a MA level on my Inv rager at level 3 to get Crane style since old carne style would allow me to do fully stuff and stack well with Steelwart and Those feats but i Think taking a unbreakable figther level and a oracle(with the Lame curse) are the most popular dips. If you want to figth naked a reach weapon and a little monk dip may be a ok plan.

@Secret Wizard
That sounds like a fun build and a good campaign setting fot ir. I'll check with my DM about the savage technologist.
I'll take a look at that VMC monk too, but I'm not sure yet, I'll probebly want some more feats.

@Pink Dragon
I was thinking of swapping those stats, more DEX has some obvious benefits. But maybe you are right.

And wow yeah, that sounds like a really cool character. Thanks, it really gives some more inspiration on my build. I'm getting myself a seven-branched sword that's for sure!

About weapon specialisation, I thought the dragonstyle feats would give me more damage output, but I could specialize on the seven-branched sword instead. Makes sense.

@Cap Darling
I did read about the oracle dip, but it's a bit too cheesy for my taste.

I'm still not sure what ragepowers would benefit this character the most (with rage cycling in the future). But it seems I'll be taking more monk then barb levels anyway.

Decisions,decisions.. thanks for all the input!

For now I think this will be my build untill level 9, I think I will have a lot of fun playing this, also during the mid-levels.

It looks like I will have to make the decision of making the AC a non factor (normal rage, invulnerable and other DR sources) or making it a strong point (savage and technologist, dodge, etc.).

Keeping DEX high gives me more AoO with combat reflexes, if the campain does go on for longer, this will come in handy for Unexpected Strike or Come Get Me.

The seven-branched sword is exotic, this will costs me another feat. While I still like the idea of using a sword (and the tripping) it slows down my progression a bit and conflicts with the dragonstyle feats :(

I'll try to get the monk's robe and amulet of mighty fists asasp to make up for that :)

Stats:
STR 20 (+2)
DEX 17 (+2)
CON 18
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 11

Level 1
- (savage + savage technologist barb1)
- Dual talent
- Power attack

Level 2
- (martial artist monk1)
- Dodge
- Unarmed strike

Level 3
- (barb2)
- Superstitious (RP)
- Dragon style (Feat)

Level 4 (+1 DEX)
- (monk2)
- Combat reflexes

Level 5
- (barb3)
- Dragon Ferocity (Feat)

Level 6
- (monk3)

Level 7
- (barb4)
- Reckless abandon (RP)
- Weapon focus Unarmed (Feat)

Level 8 (+1 STR)
- (monk4)

Level 9
- (barb 5)
- Weapon Specialization Unarmed (Feat)

i am unsure what you want from this character. I think going full monk and putting the 18 in wisdom is better since that will give you good defense and allow you to use the Martial artists exelent swift action buff.
Barbarian with a littel dip in monk is not a bad plan but going half an half is a bad call IMOP. Also if you attack with unarmed strike pummeling style is most likely superior to dragon style.

I don't see why you'd martial artist over Brawler.

What would you suggest Cap. Darling, something like this?

Level 1
- (savage + savage technologist barb1) or invulnerable?
- Dual talent
- Power attack

Level 2
- (martial artist monk1)
- Dodge
- Unarmed strike

Level 3
- (Barb2)
- Combat Reflexes (Feat)
- Lesser beast totem(RP)

Level 4
- (barb3)

Level 5
- (barb4)
- FEAT?
- RAGE POWER?

Level 6
- (barb5)

Level 7
- (barb6)
- Beast totem (RP)
- FEAT?

Level 8 (+1 STR)
- (barb7)

Level 9
- (barb 8)
- Unexpected Strike (RP)
- FEAT?

There are some gaps I'm not sure how to fill in..
- What archetype
- Level 5 feat and Rage Power
- Level 7 and 9 Feat

EDIT: What I want from this character:
- A fun and diverse melee character
- Beeing able to rage and able to dish out good damage in melee
- Using a sword or unarmed is a bit irrelevant
- Unarmored

I think using a reach weapon and going full inv barbarian is a good way to go. Put the +2 from Versatile in con. And make sure someone in the group can help you grow back in between figths,(with wands most likely) Find room for raging vitality among your feats. And attack, attack always attack! Lesser beast totem claws will be better than flurry for quite some time so if some cool put you in a corner with your Bradiche just drop it and use the claws. You wont be invincible but you will be hard as a hard thing.

You could consider a 1 level dip into the unarmed fighter archetype, which gives proficiency in all monk weapons including exotic ones and also gives a bonus style feat.

I agree with Cap. Darling that a few levels of dipping is fine but going half-and-half tends to be a poor choice mechanically.

I do agree with both of you, but I think I'll stay with the second build I posted (will probably swap DEX and WIS):

- My character will be in the frontline a lot (just a sorcerer and cleric in the party), so a reach weapons is not the best option I think.

- Taking 5 levels of martial artist is max (for the rage cycle eventually), the rest will be barbarian levels.

-The monk levels will give me good saves, feats and ability's. The barbarian levels help a lot with HP, BAB, rage and rage powers.

Taking a dip in unarmed fighter could be usefull. I'd loose some progression in the monk ability's, so for now I think I'll pass on that.

Thanks for the feedback, although it's not the build you suggested, I did get some really good advice and made some good changes I think.

Reach weapon is the only option for a Lone front liner unless the badguys respect that you are the front guy and dont try to go around you to attack your friends.

The 5 levels wil delay Pounce and cost to hit from reckless abandon and Bab. 3-4 in all. The save gain is Real but barbarian levels +supestisious would have added to that as well.
The monk abillities are not worth it unless yo go all the Way since the most important need a wis+ level check. Fatigue immune is good but strength surge -5 is not that good.

You don't need Pounce if you have Pummeling Charge, which is outright better than Pounce.

That said, yeah, Martial Artist/Barbarian makes for a much better Gestalt than a multiclass. Too many things are good on either side, IMHO.

Hmm.. you do sound convincing good sir. Not sure if I'll be ever reaching the level 10 pounce though.
I'll have to sleep on it for a night, maybe I'll come up with another build, or I'll just follow the available barbarian guides like a good boy :P
Bazutar wrote:

Hmm.. you do sound convincing good sir. Not sure if I'll be ever reaching the level 10 pounce though.

I'll have to sleep on it for a night, maybe I'll come up with another build, or I'll just follow the available barbarian guides like a good boy :P

He he. What ever you do be sure to comeback and tell us how it goes.

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