Arcane Duelist Bard + Magus subclass


Advice

Liberty's Edge

Trying to make Arcane Duelist Bard work out with the Magus subclassing option in PF Unchained. Err... "Variant Multiclassing". Why didn't they just call it "Subclassing"? That's exactly what it is...

There is so much good here. Subclassing costs you half of your feats, but the AD gets loads of bonus feats: most of them essential to the class. Arcane Pool is a big tub of icing on the AD. But this build falls just short of working perfectly. The problem is Spellstrike.

A.)The subclassing ability only allows you to Spellstrike with spells from the Magus spell list... which... there is zero meaningful overlap with the Bard spell list there. Mostly because...

B.) The Bard spell list is rather bereft of melee touch spells.

Now, I *could* use a Magus Arcana I gain to get Broad Study. But then I've used one of my Subclass goodies just to make another one work, and the *only* thing I have to show for it is Spellstriking with Touch of Gracelessness. Which is a decent touch attack spell, but that's gonna get boring *real* fast.

So I ask you, the great and vast Pathfinder community, is there something I'm missing? Some clever tweak of the rules, or obscure character option I am missing? Please help.

Paizo only, no 3rd party.


Can you take flamboyant Arcana then use a feat to get an extra arcana to pick up Arcane Deed to pick up Precise Strike to get your level to damage? I have not seen the PDF yet as Im getting it tonight but that might be a good combo with Arcane Duelist.

Liberty's Edge

That's... possible. And something I would consider, but I was looking more at making Spellstrike work.


The only combo I can think of is being a samsaran to get shocking grasp on your bard list and using that for spellstrike.

Spellstrike without spell combat isn't worth that much to be honest.


I'm confused. You want to make a bard with spellstrike but by your own admission there are very few spells on the bard spell list that can be used with spellstrike. So why then are you trying to make this work? What concept are you trying to achieve here? Would it possibly be better to be a magus that subclasses into bard?

Liberty's Edge

The concept I'm going for is adding some more "blend martial+arcane" to the Arcane Duelist. A Magus with a Bard subclass does not remotely approach what I'm looking for.

Mechanically speaking, I was vague in expressing the problem I'm looking to solve. Apologies. I'm trying to see if there's a method for getting the Bard in question access to touch spells that are on the Magus list, so that they may be used with Spellstrike. Basically, 90% of this works like a song, but Spellstrike is a hurdle. I'm sifting through all of my PF stuff looking for something, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask for some outside inspiration.


You've also got Light, I guess?

But other than that, I struggle to find anything available. I'd say to check some of the bard archetypes, as they add more spells to your list, but I don't think any of them are really compatible with the Arcane Duelist. The major 'challenge' that I see with non-spell-combat-spellstrike is that it prevents you from making a full attack and casting a spell, pretty much putting you at square one other than being able to use Touch of Gracelessness.

Honestly, it seems like your best non-Samsaran option would be to either nab Extra Arcana as a feat and get Broad Study, or just get it normally. Sorry :/


A Magician Bard is probably a better choice since they can add a few spells from the Magus list to their spell list. And they have the Dweomercraft Performance which really boosts spells.

Liberty's Edge

@Gisher: Yeah, thought about that. Heavily considered it, in fact. But Magician means giving up most of my "fighty" elements, as well as the "Battle Commander" flavor. :-/


I think your options are Broad Study, or just write that ability off. use your spells for command & control. There's plenty of Bard spells which can be useful in combat, just not with spell strike. The level 2 spell Bladed Dash, is both Magus & Bard. That's a pretty good spell.

The above idea for Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deed for Precise Strike is Awesome. You'll be doing a ton of damage with that.


Ring of Spell Knowledge - will allow you to cast a particular spell from the Magus class up to level 3 (though it will count as one level higher).

There's Wand Wielder arcana too, letting you spell combat using wands instead of casting spells.


Kyrrion wrote:

Ring of Spell Knowledge - will allow you to cast a particular spell from the Magus class up to level 3 (though it will count as one level higher).

There's Wand Wielder arcana too, letting you spell combat using wands instead of casting spells.

The problem here is that he doesn't have Spell Combat... only Spell-Strike.


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Orannis wrote:
@Gisher: Yeah, thought about that. Heavily considered it, in fact. But Magician means giving up most of my "fighty" elements, as well as the "Battle Commander" flavor. :-/

I get you. Arcane Duelist is a fantastic archetype.

It isn't much, but the Two-World Magic trait will let you add Touch of Fatigue to your spell list. On rounds when you are only planning to use a standard attack, you might as well cast this and make the attack with Spellstrike. Since it is a cantrip, it is basically a free, small debuff on top of the attack you would have made anyway.

Otherwise, being Samsaran or selecting Spell Blending (not Broad Study) are the only really good options that I can find at the moment. By 7th level, when you get your first Arcana, Spell Blending will get you two spells of up to 2nd level, or one third level spell.

Much, much later, you can use Shadow Evocation or Irresistible Dance.


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Oops, I forgot that the VMC Spellstrike has to be used with a spell from the Magus list. No Touch of Fatigue, then.

Dark Archive

Could always just grab the Arcane Mark cantrip with Two-World Magic, couldn't you?


You could, but without Spell Combat it's pretty useless.

You could get Ray of Frost and pick up the Close Range Arcana to deliver it with Spellstrike, but that's a big investment to add 1-3 of cold damage to an attack.

Grand Lodge

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Orannis wrote:

Trying to make Arcane Duelist Bard work out with the Magus subclassing option in PF Unchained. Err... "Variant Multiclassing". Why didn't they just call it "Subclassing"? That's exactly what it is...

Except that it isn't. Subclass is a term from 1st-2nd edition days when the Cavalier was a subclass of Fighter, the Paladin a Subclass of Cavalier, Druid a subclass of cleric, Illusionist a sublcass of Magic-User, I think you get the point.


I will call it Subclass forever, it's a good name - far better than "Variant Multiclassing."

Dark Archive

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VMC is easier to type, so I don't mind it.

Grand Lodge

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I don't know if the wording will let you do it, but perhaps the Spell Blending Arcana will let you do it?

Spell Blending

Benefit: When a magus selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the wizard spell list that is of a magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell of its wizard spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at least one level lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast.

Special: A magus can select this magus arcana more than once.

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