Does being a shadowdancer make me a bad person?


Advice

Shadow Lodge

So I'm playing an inquisitor/shadowdancer that doesn't much care for arcane magic users. I'm only level seven, but next level I get my rad Shadow Companion that'll be my flanking buddy and my confidant, I guess. However, this shadow companion feels like it could bring about a whole mess of trouble:

1: We are currently hunting a necromancer and have been f%*!ed over by shadows before, so I don't know how they will feel about having one of them hanging around. I feel like this can be explained to them that I will ALWAYS have the shadow under my control, but the bigger problem is...

2: Our healer is a worshipper of pharasma (a witch, but channels and heals like a cleric) and is getting a nosoi familiar at 7th level. Obviously both of which have no love for undead, but the nosoi is particularly bad as it will refuse to work around any undead or anybody who uses undead. Our characters are already thematically opposed, and this isn't likely to end well between them.

so I guess my question is how we can get past this. My character hates necromancers as well, and I'm not sure exactly what the fluff of the shadow is - why you even have access to it, why it's undead, etc (though I guess it saves paizo from making a new stat block, but you know). I guess I'm looking for a way to fluff my way out of "one of these two people is going to leave the party because they can't be in it because of religious reasons".


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The Nosoi won't work with a caster who creates or becomes undead, but while it probably wouldn't like your Shadow, they can coexist. You are not its master.

Everything else is RP.

Dark Archive

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You could refluff it, I guess. If I remember correctly, it shares your alignment, so it doesn't have to be an evil undead. You could turn it into an outsider from the plane of shadow maybe?

Or alternatively, you could just ignore the shadow companion. or you could stop taking levels in shadow dancer.

But I have to ask, is either you or the other player doing this on purpose?


You might want to discuss reflavoring your companion with your GM without changing its stats. If the shadow is a psychological projection and a reflection of your growing affinity with the Plane of Shadow, it is not technically an undead creature; it just happens to have similar traits and react to certain effects like an undead would.

Shadow Lodge

the David wrote:

You could refluff it, I guess. If I remember correctly, it shares your alignment, so it doesn't have to be an evil undead. You could turn it into an outsider from the plane of shadow maybe?

Or alternatively, you could just ignore the shadow companion. or you could stop taking levels in shadow dancer.

But I have to ask, is either you or the other player doing this on purpose?

Neither of us are, actually. I wanted to go into a sort of mobile anti-caster character (the shadow step is what I'm really after here), and they wanted to play a dedicated healer who has a lot of problems with death and the dying. As we developed we just sort of fell into this situation. It's fun, and neither of us mind too much, but I was just totally drawing a blank on how to rp my way out of this.

Grand Lodge

Well, it is undead, but it definatly does not seem like the Shadow Companion is a real undead. It shares your alignment, it uses your BaB and Saves and half your HP. It does not create spawn.

Honestly, it seems more like an aspect of your soul. You can see Egyptian mythology on the soul for an example of this.

Are you and the witch doing this rivalry on purpose, because that can be great role play.

If you not doing this on purpose, maybe get a meeting between you, the witch and the GM (as a mediator) and talk this through. If you can convince the GM (note not the witch, the GM) that the shadow is your soul it will not create any more conflict. IE> GM acts as the Nosoi and Pharasma, if they do not view the shadow as undead, they will not seek to destroy it and it's master.


You don't have to use the shadow ultimately, I always thought it more a target for a DM due to the penalty if it is destroyed and a liability in town adventures.

But in answer to your original question, no but how does your game world view the summoning of undead?


I am playing a gestalt character with levels in Shadowdancer who was the former GOD of death (and seeks to root out all types of undead). I play my character as someone who summons shadows so that she can help put them to rest, and asks for their help while they're around in return.


I think it'd be fine really.. it's not a real shade persay. It's a manifestation of your power in a shade form, via your shadow power. It is undead however it doesnt really act like the same undead sorta thing.. Hell it can be lawful good.

Generally Phrasma might let that go if you convince that it's an aspect of your soul that you bring forth..

really just talk to the gm and the player. If it's a home game you could probably gloss over the direct issue of it within the party. and have it live in your shadow in towns etc. which I have. It would detecxt undead but unless you were evil too it won't detect evil. So.. just don't walk into churchs really.

Liberty's Edge

Note that Pharasma is Neutral. Her hatred of undead, while usually a point of agreement with Good deities, is not Good or righteous on its own. It's about them flouting the cycle of life and death which is her domain, not about their evil or unpleasantness by mortal standards.

Take, for example, a CG Vampire (theoretically possible): Sarenrae might welcome or applaud them, and other Good people and gods might be won over...Pharasma demands their destruction with the same fervor with which she demands that of any other vampire, and no amount of good deeds can ever change that because she hates what the vampire is, not what they do. This is particularly relevant since a Shadowdancer's companion shares his or her alignment.

So...while I have no answer to the question of how to get along with a Pharasmin and Nosoi while having a Shadow companion (beyond the reflavoring suggested above), I can answer the thread's title:

No, being a Shadowdancer has no inherent moral implications.

Liberty's Edge

Since that Shadow is actually an aspect of your own soul and thus does not flout the cycle of life and death that pharasma protects, and is not truly a raised undead creature, I have a hard time seeing the witch or nosoi rejecting the character outright. They would be nervous, sure, but once they realized what was going on they would be alright with it. After all, it doesn't create undead, and it dies when you do.

"Hates undead" is a general rule, but when you looker deeper into why they hate undead you'll find that the Shadowdancer pet does not actually violate their sensibilities, though it is understandable for them to take a bit to get used to it. This is a *very* unusual case for an undead creature.

Just don't try to become immortal.


metid wrote:
Our healer is a worshipper of pharasma (a witch, but channels and heals like a cleric) and is getting a nosoi familiar at 7th level. Obviously both of which have no love for undead, but the nosoi is particularly bad as it will refuse to work around any undead or anybody who uses undead. Our characters are already thematically opposed, and this isn't likely to end well between them.
Nosoi wrote:
Like all psychopomps, nosois loathe the undead. They immediately leave the service of any master who creates or permanently becomes such an abomination.

Just because they loathe the undead doesn't mean they can't exist with you in the same party. If your Witch created or became undead, the nosoi would immediately leave of course, but maybe you could convince the witch that it's for a higher cause etc etc, and the witch could keep the nosoi in line (if unhappy, and likely to steal your stuff in particular).


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RP your Shadow as YOUR Shadow. Like the Shadow of your actual character. Think Peter Pan, here. Downplay the undead type and just use it as a descriptor not as an actual description of your character. It says that it is different from a normal shadow but doesn't complete explain how. I would say that it is safe to assume that it is different in a good many number of different ways. Most importantly, it's alignment matches your own.

If someone at some point mistakes your Shadow as an actual Shadow kindly remind them to check it's alignment before trying to banish it. It would probably be a good idea to have it stick to the floor under your feet during certain RP encounters, though.


Until a couple of threads here, I was actually completely unaware that the shadow was undead. I thought it was literally your shadow, brought to life.


As did I. A lot of good has been said about refluffing it if your GM allows it, so I won't add to the pile. Also, as has been mentioned, Classes rarely are clear cut evil. I personally only know of two, Anti-Paladin and Assassin, though you can change Alignment afterwards for the latter á la Rurouni Kenshin. Shadowdancer is not Inherently evil.

However, if your GM does not let you refluff it, or you're playing PFS like my Shadowdancer (to be) of Pharasma, remember that it IS a true undead. It may draw many things from you, but it is not a shadow of yourself. It is a Shadow, an undead creature. You may have control of it, and it may match your Alignment, but it is still an undead Shadow. It may not be able to create spawn, but it IS a Shadow. I see a lot of people saying that it's a piece of your soul or your actual shadow and all sorts of other things... But it is indeed an undead creature. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for reimagining things, but it's almost like they're in denial about having an undead companion. That would be an awesome thing if we didn't have Pharasma aiding our parties. Just imagine Humbart Wessel from the Diablo series!

You do you.


While your shadow is "technically" an undead it isn't your typical I desecrate someone's soul and totes screw up their afterlife business. You take a severe penalty if the shadow is felled yes? (Negative levels or something? PLZ correct me if I'm wrong) So essentially this shade is a piece of you, which is why it shares your alignment. Think of it more as letting some of your soul roam free from the rest of your soul, thus why it is an undead, it is a soul, well, a fragment of one anyway. This "undead" was not created by screwing with an unwilling soul and binding it into servitude, rather it is part of your soul, and willingly works for you because frankly it is you. Perhaps this difference would need to be explained to those with issues with undead who aren't privy to your buddy's special case of undeath.

This however, is simply how I look at this class feature and is in no way shape or form the official deal, however I find it quite suiting given the special rules this servant has.

EDIT: I should've stated this is simply the best way I would say that you could reflavor it so that it still make sense as far as the ability goes and not jack to much with people who are averse to the idea of undead. This just happens to be the way I generally like to look at the ability, it also makes a ton of sense why dispelling it or it being vanquished would impose a negative lvl.


If all you wanted was the teleporting anyway, maybe retrain as a horizon walker? Better BAB, earlier teleporting, no contradictory class skills that either go to waste (the shadow is the best part of the dancer - giving it up is like not wild shaping as a druid!) Or conflict with party members.

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