What you're asking for is far from simple, and we have many other projects that would benefit a much larger number of people with a similar amount of effort. If our current subscription model doesn't work for you, please buy from your FLGS.
I know that it is far from simple... But may be it is the future .... So I am just providing a new idea ... I will directly get in contact with you for another thing..
Hopefully this problem is now understood and being considered. This is the reason why I came up with the new InTernational Distribution Model where everybody will profit from. See above posts.
For 5 adventure decks in one oversea shippment I pay
80 USD for 5 item plus 20 USD shipping.
That is 100 USD for paizo. On this 100 USD, both import tax and German VAT are applied.
So total 120 USD for one monthly shipment.
That is roundabout 120 Euro for 5 adventure packs, which is 24 Euro per pack. In Germany, I pay for 1 pack around 15 Euro, however, here not always all promos are included.So 9 Euro price diffenence PER adventure deck due to the old-fashioned distribution model. So I pay on the top of the German price, 9 Euro for 100% obtainment of the promo card.
This is a pretty bad distribution model for international subscribers only supporting USPS and the German customs from the Paizo customer's wallet.
There's a few problems I mentioned above which you didnt respond to. I'm repeating myself, but it's this or filing tax returns...
1. When you buy an AP deck from the local games store, paizo make less money than when you buy from them directly. The entire 9 Euro difference doesnt go to them, but some of it definitely does. You keep saying "nobody will lose" and it's just not true. Paizo offer a cheap option and a promo-enhanced "premium" option at a higher price, you want everything at the cheap price. (In fact, they offer many different ways of getting the game, but those are the two you're focussing on).
2. The importer has to pay the international shipping costs. You keep discounting it as though USPS will ship big boxes around the world for nothing. Even though you wont be billed for it directly, whoever is billed for it will charge you for it. They will get a discount per unit, due to shipping larger volume, however you're making what is currently a two-entity transaction into a four-entity transaction and the two newcomers are going to want money to be involved.
Currently: you order from Paizo, they pack it up and ship it to you, USPS charge you for a small package, Germany charges you taxes, you unwrap it.
Under your scheme, you order from Paizo, they tell whichever local game store you've nominated to receive it from that they've posted you a coupon to redeem, Paizo or the gaming store tell the distributor that you're entitled to a copy, paizo pack your copy up with a bunch of other european orders and send it to the distributor, USPS charge the distributor for a large shipment (a little bit cheaper per unit than you would have paid), whichever European country the distributor resides in charges them taxes (a little bit cheaper per unit than you would have paid), they unwrap it, they pack up your copy to send to the German game store, they ship it within Europe, the gaming store unpacks it, the gaming store notifies you it's arrived, you go and collect it.
Your scheme saves you whatever import tax you would be charged on the retail value of one item and whatever overseas shipping you would be charged for an individual package.
Your scheme has the following additional costs:
1. The distributor's handling charges
2. The overseas shipping costs of the entire shipment, divided amongst the various items
3. The import tax charged on your item at wholesale rate
4. The domestic shipping to the gaming store
5. The distributor's profit
6. The retailer's handling charges
7. The retailer's profit
In addition, the extra number of steps will increase the risk of damage and/or lost components. The issue of gaming stores moving or closing without advising paizo/the distributor will result in Customer Service headaches for both (which costs money). There will be people who dont show - who gets stuck with the cost then? Do the retailers ship it all the way back to the US (paying international shipping once more)? Do they end up holding stock they didnt want? All of this is going to be factored into whatever price you end up paying.
All of those additional costs might be covered by the saving in costs you are seeing - but you're going to pay for them somehow. The same issue arises for anyone international looking for German boardgames. I can buy a kangaroo cheaper than you can.
It's just more expensive to buy something when you're a long way from where it's produced. How could it be any other way, if you think about it?
Hmmmm....what exactly is the going rate for a kangaroo these days?
Personally, I'd rather suggest a wallaby but, if you're not up to going and getting one yourself - a couple of grand.
.
.
.
Plus international shipping and customs charges....
My ideal solution as I am collecting of each promo card 5 copies and I just require 1 adventure pack. For 5 of each promo cards, I have to have a quintible subscription. That makes the oversea parcel so heavy and high customs.
If somebody in the US would only send me all the 5 promos and resells/keeps the 5 adventure packs, then i wouldnt have a heavy oversea parcel and no custom charges as promos have officially no value. Problem solved.
So is anybody in the US is interested in getting 5 adventure packs without promos for LESS than the SUBSCRIPTION price? And would forward me only the promo cards for some price ?
PS: i ate my first kangoroo at my university restaurant. It had some coconut topping. Yummy. More important, I didnt pay for both shipping and customs charges. :)
Yes you did.
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I don't know much about it, but aren't there sites which provide a U.S. Address for you so you can accumulate a number of packages over time and then send them bulk/slow?
I'm not sure how customs and/or VAT factors into that though.
So Myfly, I don't understand that you are complaining about your friends getting promos while you sell them bunchwise on ebay (couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the price...). Wouldn't it be better to help your poor buddies out with some of your spare cards instead of making money with them?
I have the feeling you are trying to reduce the cost to acquire the promos to make an even better benefit for yourself :(
So Myfly, I don't understand that you are complaining about your friends getting promos while you sell them bunchwise on ebay (couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the price...). Wouldn't it be better to help your poor buddies out with some of your spare cards instead of making money with them?
I have the feeling you are trying to reduce the cost to acquire the promos to make an even better benefit for yourself :(
My philosphy: since there was only one Blessing of Zarongel in a single RotR Subscription, I try to collect 5 Cards of each promo card released.
Well, if an adventure deck with promos directly from Paizo costs me 24 EURO or 24 USD as a PACG subscriber and i resell the new adventure deck for 9.99 USD/9.99Euro (otherwise it is difficult to resell as you have to add shipping costs), then you have a value of more than 15 USD/15Euro (here in Germany) remaining for the promo(s) enclosed with the adventure pack (and for reselling, ebay and paypal fees matter a lot).
And ordering 5 PACG subscriptions, reselling monthly (!) 4 adventure decks without promos with a GREAT monetary loss... Alone the reselling process is a lot of pain. Do you want to have some promoless new adventure decks, I still have plenty of them as Skull&Shackles doesnt sell well compared to RotR? (Huge pile of adv. decks in my book shelf - hopefully they will sell sometime).
It is so simple to determine the promo card price tag for me.
And OnkelZorni would like to get the one promo I paid 15 USD/15Euro for - free of charge!
What a BAD joke !!!! :(
PS: This is WHY i am trying to come up with a new distribution model for international customers as the complete promo set in a quantity of five is ridiculously hard to obtain!
Yes you did.
Definetely not, as those Kangaroo were raised in my area. Yes it is possible to have living Kangaroos in Germany :)
PS: This is WHY i am trying to come up with a new distribution model for international customers as the complete promo set in a quantity of five is ridiculously hard to obtain!
The Intention is, that you get 1(!) Promo of each card. If you want more that's just up to you and it's not Paizo's job to make it cheaper for you to support your Promo hunting. I don't know how many subscribers are in Germany or EU-Wide but I'm pretty sure Paizo does. If there would be any way to improve their distribution here in Europe without having to deal with financial disadvanteges I'm pretty sure they would do.
Yes you did.Definetely not, as those Kangaroo were raised in my area. Yes it is possible to have living Kangaroos in Germany :)
But there are no PACG Cards living (printed) in Germany, bad example
I just looked up some prices. On amazon.de you can preorder all of the upcoming stuff for PACG. The prices for Char-Addon, AD's and CD's are all around 22,-- EUR, that's a bit more than I will have to pay for my next sub fulfillment (never paid more than 21,82 USD which is roughly 20,40 EUR at the current exchange rate). So the sub is the far better option right now cause it's cheaper and I geht the promos. VAT doesn't apply because the worth of package + shipping is less than 22,-- EUR. In my eyes, this it quite EU-friendly when even amazon doesn't cut the price.
PS: This is WHY i am trying to come up with a new distribution model for international customers as the complete promo set in a quantity of five is ridiculously hard to obtain!The Intention is, that you get 1(!) Promo of each card. If you want more that's just up to you and it's not Paizo's job to make it cheaper for you to support your Promo hunting. I don't know how many subscribers are in Germany or EU-Wide but I'm pretty sure Paizo does. If there would be any way to improve their distribution here in Europe without having to deal with financial disadvanteges I'm pretty sure they would do.
All started with the Blessing of Zarongel which was included ONLY ONCE per RotR subscription! IMO you require 5 promo blessings as all other blessings.
And I was right, as for SS 5 (!) Blessings of Zogmugot were supplied in your subscription as you know as a subscriber.Hopefully there is some solution.
I just looked up some prices. On amazon.de you can preorder all of the upcoming stuff for PACG. The prices for Char-Addon, AD's and CD's are all around 22,-- EUR, that's a bit more than I will have to pay for my next sub fulfillment (never paid more than 21,82 USD which is roughly 20,40 EUR at the current exchange rate). So the sub is the far better option right now cause it's cheaper and I geht the promos. VAT doesn't apply because the worth of package + shipping is less than 22,-- EUR. In my eyes, this it quite EU-friendly when even amazon doesn't cut the price.
That is so right - one sub is Free of import taxes.
But if you have to order 5 subs to get the 5 promos then you are running into the import tax. I asked Paizo customers service to help me out splitting one huge parcel of 5 subs into 5 seperate parcels (1 sub per parcel), but this seems to be not possible due to software reasons :(
Best for me, as I do collect 5 of each promo card is to obtain
Just 1 sub (adv. Deck including the promo cards) PLUS
4 times the promo package without the adv. packs for my collection.
And I will pay for the 4times promo package some amount of money as Paizo requests. Then I do not have to resell the 4 adv. Decks, cheaper shipping, no import tax... I would be soooo HAPPY!
Let me get this straight.
You wanted 5 Blessings of Zarogel, so instead of going to eBay and paying a small cost to get 4 more (or even doing this for all promos and still not costing a huge amount), you decided to pay a fortune on subscriptions?
Yea, that's not on Paizo to fix, that's on you.
Thats what I did... To obtain 5 blessings of zarongel... And now it is cool to continue that 5times promo card collection. For RotR the 4 adventure decks sold in a minute on ebay.
But Skull&Shackles wasnt a fast seller. Actually, the adventure packs pile up beneath the beds of our twins :) ... Soon they will hit the bottom of the mattresses and then it will get uncomfortable for the boys ;) LOL
Have you ever slept on a pile of adventure decks?
Sweet dreams.
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MyFly, I don't think you even understand what an outlier you are sir :)
Wait I don't understand. You need 5 subscriptions to get 5 promos? Why do you need 5 promos?I just looked up some prices. On amazon.de you can preorder all of the upcoming stuff for PACG. The prices for Char-Addon, AD's and CD's are all around 22,-- EUR, that's a bit more than I will have to pay for my next sub fulfillment (never paid more than 21,82 USD which is roughly 20,40 EUR at the current exchange rate). So the sub is the far better option right now cause it's cheaper and I geht the promos. VAT doesn't apply because the worth of package + shipping is less than 22,-- EUR. In my eyes, this it quite EU-friendly when even amazon doesn't cut the price.That is so right - one sub is Free of import taxes.
But if you have to order 5 subs to get the 5 promos then you are running into the import tax. I asked Paizo customers service to help me out splitting one huge parcel of 5 subs into 5 seperate parcels (1 sub per parcel), but this seems to be not possible due to software reasons :(
Best for me, as I do collect 5 of each promo card is to obtain
Just 1 sub (adv. Deck including the promo cards) PLUS
4 times the promo package without the adv. packs for my collection.
And I will pay for the 4times promo package some amount of money as Paizo requests. Then I do not have to resell the 4 adv. Decks, cheaper shipping, no import tax... I would be soooo HAPPY!
Somebody collects stamps, somebody baseball cards and well for me it a 5times complete PACG promo set.
MyFly, I don't think you even understand what an outlier you are sir :)
Well, i had to look the word "outlier" up...
-> You have to be an outlier to have exceptional and outstanding ideas which nobody has!
Just think of the Premium Plunder Die ;)
Just think of the Premium Plunder Die ;)
Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.
And it was a re-skin of a d6, lets not oversell it...
Just think of the Premium Plunder Die ;)Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.
And it was a re-skin of a d6, lets not oversell it...
Hopefully, the blind squirrel found a second corn named "Premium Class Deck Collector Storage Box" and the box covers says "Designed by Paizo/Idea by Myfly" :-)))
... In another field, I own two patents where one was awarded with the "Innovations for Europe" award. Even blind, looks like I am finding more corns than other people do :-)
Regarding patents, I am following John Oliver on Youtube... There was a new video up!
Do you know what a patent troll does? Never heard this phrase before.
Watch here and learn
Go to John Oliver: Patents .
After watching this video my sight shifted over to a Paizo's shipping paper box... And my girlfriend said - "that is a troll on that parcel, right?"
I replied, it should be a Golem - the message is "The Golem's got it", but then I couldnt explain her what the difference between a Golem and a Troll is... Do you know?
Nice story reaching from a six-sided die, new storage box, patents, trolls and paizos golem..
PS: in that video - unbelievable - do you think they operate Samsung's sponsored ice skating park in front of the court house even during the summer time in Marshall, TX???
Thinking about my prior post, when you have gotten a US patent which claims the "flip a card, roll some dice" mechanism, you would be already billionaire! ;)
Mmmh, i think you are the one (even also German) who didnt get it... I have to pay the USA VAT plus OVERSEA shipping plus the EUROPEAN IMPORT TAX plus GERMAN VAT. And the latter TWO are applied on the US item price including US VAT PLUS EXPENSIVE oversea shipping.
Actually, you do NOT pay USA VAT when you buy directly from Paizo. One of the reasons is because there is no such thing as "USA VAT", VAT is dependent on state in the US. The price Paizo lists is without VAT, which is standard in the US, exactly because the amount of VAT the customer pays is dependent on the state he lives in. He might come from a state where he doesn't even have to pay VAT at all, so he pays $19.99, or he might come from a state that charges 20% VAT, and so he pays $23.99.
As overseas customers, we Germans do not pay VAT in the US, that is what the Einfuhrumsatzsteuer is for (what you call "import tax"), which is nothing else than the German Mehrwertsteuer for imported goods. So, to reiterate, you do NOT pay "USA VAT", and neither do you pay "EUROPEAN IMPORT TAX plus GERMAN VAT" because the first one doesn't exist, and the "Import tax" and German VAT is one and the same.
There is definetely, German VAT. After a certain import value in Germany, there is additionally to the VAT a item-category-based import tax. I already experienced both of them.
Then you must be special. I'm never paying anything besides the Einfuhrumsatzsteuer, 19% for games, 7% for books.
And when you reach some limit you pay 19 % for games and then the next limit additionally 7% for cards. The latter is import tax.
Then you must be special.
Don't we all know it?
Then you must be special.Don't we all know it?
Thanks Mr. Bear for your compliment. It is boring to be just a follower.
Do you know that there is a song about YOU on kickstarter about Mike's other thing?
@zaister: main german customs office is in cologne/Köln. Call them and learn about the item-class-based import tax in Germany which adds to German VAT above a certain purchase value. Life is all about learning.
Do you know that there is a song about YOU on kickstarter about Mike's other thing?
That lullaby took a twisted turn.
At first I thought:
Well this is a nice lullaby for kids.
Oh.
Oh?
Oh!
No. Maybe not.
At first I thought:
Well this is a nice lullaby for kids.
Oh.
Oh?
Oh!
No. Maybe not.
Maybe not.
Maybe not.At first I thought:
Well this is a nice lullaby for kids.
Oh.
Oh?
Oh!
No. Maybe not.
What happens after the lullaby has been heard over 170k times?
@zaister: main german customs office is in cologne/Köln. Call them and learn about the item-class-based import tax in Germany which adds to German VAT above a certain purchase value. Life is all about learning.
As I live in Köln, I go there all the time to get my Paizo stuff. And I have never payed actual Zollgebühren on Paizo products even when the package is more than 150 €. ANd as I already explained. You alway play 19%/7% Einfuhrumsatzsteuer WHICH IS the "German VAT". I had to pay Zoll on the second Reaper Kickstarter stuff, but never on Paizo products.
EDIT: I just realized that you said you have five subscriptions. So you always get five times the same products. It is possible that they see this as a commercial import for resale, not a private one and slap you with some additional tax because of this...
@zaister: main german customs office is in cologne/Köln. Call them and learn about the item-class-based import tax in Germany which adds to German VAT above a certain purchase value. Life is all about learning.As I live in Köln, I go there all the time to get my Paizo stuff. And I have never payed actual Zollgebühren on Paizo products even when the package is more than 150 €. ANd as I already explained. You alway play 19%/7% Einfuhrumsatzsteuer WHICH IS the "German VAT". I had to pay Zoll on the second Reaper Kickstarter stuff, but never on Paizo products.
EDIT: I just realized that you said you have five subscriptions. So you always get five times the same products. It is possible that they see this as a commercial import for resale, not a private one and slap you with some additional tax because of this...
Left coloumn is the "Import tax" which as I said is item-class-based and right column is the "German VAT" (19% and 7% for books).
Go to 101 on German customs .
It has 0% for books an no entry for games. Just what I have been paying for 10 years in Zoll for my Paizo imports: Nothing.
Anyway, the discussion is moot. Paizo are not going to change their business model just so your niche reselling scheme works better for you.
Anyway, the discussion is moot. Paizo are not going to change their business model just so your niche reselling scheme works better for you.
You didnt get the point.
I really do NOT want to resell !!!
I am just FORCED to in order to be able obtaining a complete 5times promo card set.
The promo cards are not given out freely as they are connected to the subscription which is only to be avaialable thru a US channel.
It has 0% for books an no entry for games. Just what I have been paying for 10 years in Zoll for my Paizo imports: Nothing.
It also depends on the import value as you know.
Toys are imported mostly as plastic imports.
Games are most considered as cards for import tax calculation.
However, not every tax ategory is listed there.
Have you looked into getting a U.S. Address? Having them shipped there and then posted to you by friends/business? (At the very least you should be able to reduce shipping costs if you're not impatient to get them).
Have you looked into getting a U.S. Address? Having them shipped there and then posted to you by friends/business? (At the very least you should be able to reduce shipping costs if you're not impatient to get them).
Each pack 5 times by (5adv. and character deck) is 30 packs if accumulated. Quite heavy. Priority mail 50 USD all in one parcel instead of 120 USD in 6 separated shipments.
So saving 70 USD, but Import tax and German VAT are almost of the same amount...BEST would be to get 1 standard PACG subscription plus 4 promo packs (will pay for each promo pack what paizo requests). This will reduce shipping costs, only German VAT and at last I will have not the resell-problem for monthly 4 adventure decks. Happy with my 5times promo collection then.
Hopefully, my shout for help is being heard in the Paizo Olymp. :)
----------------------
For Euprean duty model see
http://www.zoll.de/EN/Private-individuals/Travel/Entering-Germany/Duties-an d-taxes/Exceeding-travellers-allowances/exceeding-travellers-allowances_nod e.html
Tariff-based calculation of duties
Where the customs tariff is to be applied for the calculation of duties, each individual type of charge (such as tobacco tax, customs duty, and import VAT) shall be calculated separately.
Where such method of calculation is not feasible, the amount of import charges depends not only on the value of the goods, but also on their nature and characteristics. The import charges will then be calculated on the basis of the Common Customs Tariff of the European Communities and the rates laid down in the relevant national tax legislation.
The total amount of import charges can be composed of the following types of duty:
- the customs duty levied on all imported goods,
- excise duties including, for example, the charges on energy, tobacco products and spirits, alcopops, beer, sparkling wines and intermediate products, which are due on all goods subject to excise duty, and the
- import value-added tax levied on all imported goods.
---------
There is customs duty what I call import tax AND there is import VAT.
Anyway, the discussion is moot. Paizo are not going to change their business model just so your niche reselling scheme works better for you.
But paizo could offer a promo card pack (all promo cards of that adventure path for the duration of that adventure path subscription) for 20 USD for international PACG subscribers.
Just think of the Premium Plunder Die ;)Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.
And it was a re-skin of a d6, lets not oversell it...
Hopefully, the blind squirrel found a second corn named "Premium Class Deck Collector Storage Box" and the box covers says "Designed by Paizo/Idea by Myfly" :-)))
... In another field, I own two patents where one was awarded with the "Innovations for Europe" award. Even blind, looks like I am finding more corns than other people do :-)
Regarding patents, I am following John Oliver on Youtube... There was a new video up!
Do you know what a patent troll does? Never heard this phrase before.Watch here and learn
Go to John Oliver: Patents .After watching this video my sight shifted over to a Paizo's shipping paper box... And my girlfriend said - "that is a troll on that parcel, right?"
I replied, it should be a Golem - the message is "The Golem's got it", but then I couldnt explain her what the difference between a Golem and a Troll is... Do you know?Nice story reaching from a six-sided die, new storage box, patents, trolls and paizos golem..
PS: in that video - unbelievable - do you think they operate Samsung's sponsored ice skating park in front of the court house even during the summer time in Marshall, TX???
If you think of a bare knuckle fight of two fantasy creatures: TROLL vs. GOLEM ...
Who would most likely win?