My friend wants to make a goblin paladin of lamoshto and have him be the tank for the party, but it doesnt seem all that right for a sea fairing campaign
And before anyone says just ask the GM he is the GM but he even has doubts about the character.
Lamashtu? She is a CE god, so he wants to be an Anti-Paladin?
Evil campaign?
The AC will be there, I just don't know if he will be able to get TO anything... the speed decrease for a small creature wearing heavy armor... not pretty.
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A small PC will always have more potential AC than a medium PC. Whatever a medium PC can do, a small PC can do the exact same and have one more AC (size bonus). So if your question is "can a goblin have the most AC" then the answer is a resounding yes. If your question is "can a paladin have the most AC" then the answer is "it depends on the rest of your party".
I'm going to assume you mean Lamashtu the Chaotic Evil god known as the Demon Queen/Mother of Monsters.
Unless the GM is using a house-rule, which is fine, there is no way to be a Paladin of a god who isn't Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good, or Lawful Good in Golarion (i'm assuming thats the setting since you mentioned Lamashtu).
As for a Goblin Paladin for a sea campaign i don't see any issue with that unless i'm missing something.
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*glub glub glub*
Keep the drowning rules on hand, swimming in full plate is tough.
Gobos get a +4 DEX plus are Small (+1 AC), but suffer on STR, so - yes, they can get very nice AC, but at a price.
And heavy armor has some pretty severe "max DEX" limits, so his extra DEX won't help much.
Wearing heavy armor while at sea? Not smart. But, heck - he's a gobo!
well theres no house rule saying that a paladin can worship an evil/chaotic god but he doesnt want to be an anti-paladin starting at LvL 1 when the captain of the boat is a LvL 20 half-orc Paladin. And a goblin can only move 1-2 spaces when wearing heavy armor who wont be able to swim while the rest of the party can move 4-5 spaces and are proficient at swimming.
he'll either drown when he gets in the water or get killed for being an anti-paladin.
Either way he aint gonna last long unless he uses his GM god powers to force him to surive
he'll either drown when he gets in the water or get killed for being an anti-paladin.
Either way he aint gonna last long unless he uses his GM god powers to force him to surive
Tell him to not wear Heavy Armor on a boat in the sea. It's dumb.
The Goblin in question could use light armor along with a shield and focus on DEX a little to get AC.As for the Paladin part just tell him to play a Goblin Paladin and don't worship an evil demon goddess.
Paladin of Lamashtu is a contradiction.
Are the GM planning on having a DMPC that is a paladin of a evil godess? I Can only see ways this can go wrong. But it being a High AC goblin is not among them.
i think the evil monster goddess can not be used but the he focused on having enchantments and have a wisard cast mage armor and stuff on him he could be a good tank but the current GM is the one who usally goes wisard the rest of us have never been wisard before for that to work
i think the evil monster goddess can not be used but the he focused on having enchantments and have a wisard cast mage armor and stuff on him he could be a good tank but the current GM is the one who usally goes wisard the rest of us have never been wisard before for that to work
Mage armor will not work if he is already wearing armor.
i think the evil monster goddess can not be used but the he focused on having enchantments and have a wisard cast mage armor and stuff on him he could be a good tank but the current GM is the one who usally goes wisard the rest of us have never been wisard before for that to workMage armor will not work if he is already wearing armor.
Without armor, though, with his DEX and Size, he'd be doing quite well under a Mage Armor spell effect!
i really dont like how he decided his character on 2D100 rolls(one for species and one for class). also i didnt realise mage armor didnt work with armor thanks a lot guys
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i really dont like how he decided his character on 2D100 rolls(one for species and one for class). also i didnt realise mage armor didnt work with armor thanks a lot guys
It does work with armor, it just doesn't stack with armor. So if you have leather armor (+2) and have someone cast mage armor (+4) on you, then you have +4 (not the sum of them which is +6) because +4 is greater than +2.
If you have a breastplate (+6) on, and someone casts mage armor on you, then you have +6 because +6 is greater than +4. If you for some reason take off your breastplate while mage armor is still active, then you will have +4 because mage armor is still active and you're no longer wearing your actual armor.
This is because like bonuses don't stack. Mage Armor and actual armor provide armor bonuses to AC.
With regards to Mage Armor I have a question: What about +1 Leather Armor and Mage armor? Does mage armor get the benefit of the enhancement? Like +4 for mage armor and +1 for enhancement to armor class? I was curious.
Goblin could be paladin and have the full plate... Might want to get to fast dawning straps or make the full plate out of flotsam or something buoyant.
With regards to Mage Armor I have a question: What about +1 Leather Armor and Mage armor? Does mage armor get the benefit of the enhancement? Like +4 for mage armor and +1 for enhancement to armor class? I was curious.
Goblin could be paladin and have the full plate... Might want to get to fast dawning straps or make the full plate out of flotsam or something buoyant.
Nope they are both still armor. You only take the highest.
Mage Armor +4 armor > +1 leather +3 armor
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With regards to Mage Armor I have a question: What about +1 Leather Armor and Mage armor? Does mage armor get the benefit of the enhancement? Like +4 for mage armor and +1 for enhancement to armor class? I was curious.
Goblin could be paladin and have the full plate... Might want to get to fast dawning straps or make the full plate out of flotsam or something buoyant.
Can you not determine the answer from my post almost directly above yours?
Can you not determine the answer from my post almost directly above yours?With regards to Mage Armor I have a question: What about +1 Leather Armor and Mage armor? Does mage armor get the benefit of the enhancement? Like +4 for mage armor and +1 for enhancement to armor class? I was curious.
Goblin could be paladin and have the full plate... Might want to get to fast dawning straps or make the full plate out of flotsam or something buoyant.
Different question then what you described.
What's in the Box? asked about the enhancement.
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Can you not determine the answer from my post almost directly above yours?With regards to Mage Armor I have a question: What about +1 Leather Armor and Mage armor? Does mage armor get the benefit of the enhancement? Like +4 for mage armor and +1 for enhancement to armor class? I was curious.
Goblin could be paladin and have the full plate... Might want to get to fast dawning straps or make the full plate out of flotsam or something buoyant.
Different question then what you described.
What's in the Box? asked about the enhancement.
So then that requires other basic game knowledge, looking at the prd, or basic extrapolation. It's still an armor bonus, which I succinctly described the basic rule at the end of my post.
So then that requires other basic game knowledge, looking at the prd, or basic extrapolation. It's still an armor bonus, which I succinctly described the basic rule at the end of my post.Can you not determine the answer from my post almost directly above yours?With regards to Mage Armor I have a question: What about +1 Leather Armor and Mage armor? Does mage armor get the benefit of the enhancement? Like +4 for mage armor and +1 for enhancement to armor class? I was curious.
Goblin could be paladin and have the full plate... Might want to get to fast dawning straps or make the full plate out of flotsam or something buoyant.
Different question then what you described.
What's in the Box? asked about the enhancement.
Unless your example had magical armor in it, which it didn't, the question was valid and then answered.
No need for arrogance. It was just a question.
Seafaring campaign? Use a Merfolk. +2 to Natural Armor to start off with and the ability to take Improved Natural Armor feats. A standard fighter at lvl20 built a certain way and with certain items can easily have an AC of 77.
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So then that requires other basic game knowledge, looking at the prd, or basic extrapolation. It's still an armor bonus, which I succinctly described the basic rule at the end of my post.Can you not determine the answer from my post almost directly above yours?With regards to Mage Armor I have a question: What about +1 Leather Armor and Mage armor? Does mage armor get the benefit of the enhancement? Like +4 for mage armor and +1 for enhancement to armor class? I was curious.
Goblin could be paladin and have the full plate... Might want to get to fast dawning straps or make the full plate out of flotsam or something buoyant.
Different question then what you described.
What's in the Box? asked about the enhancement.
Unless your example had magical armor in it, which it didn't, the question was valid and then answered.
No need for arrogance. It was just a question.
Is the enhancement on magical armor not an armor bonus?
Is the enhancement on magical armor not an armor bonus?So then that requires other basic game knowledge, looking at the prd, or basic extrapolation. It's still an armor bonus, which I succinctly described the basic rule at the end of my post.Can you not determine the answer from my post almost directly above yours?With regards to Mage Armor I have a question: What about +1 Leather Armor and Mage armor? Does mage armor get the benefit of the enhancement? Like +4 for mage armor and +1 for enhancement to armor class? I was curious.
Goblin could be paladin and have the full plate... Might want to get to fast dawning straps or make the full plate out of flotsam or something buoyant.
Different question then what you described.
What's in the Box? asked about the enhancement.
Unless your example had magical armor in it, which it didn't, the question was valid and then answered.
No need for arrogance. It was just a question.
Enhancement on magical armor is an armor bonus.
A goblin can work fine for a seafaring campaign. What I have my doubts about is a goblin paladin, and you have to pick a deity within one step of Lawful Good.
Goblins are the most fun when played chaotic and a little bit nuts, even if you're not evil about it. I guess there's a certain enjoyment to be had at playing against type, but the idea just strains credibility for me.
If you really want to play a goblin paladin, a ranged paladin would work very well and take advantage of the dex bonus while also making heavy armor less necessary.
Look at the Divine Hunter archetype for a possibility.
I didn't mean to cause a thing. I guess I was asking if an enhancement bonus on armor applies to the person wearing it or to the armor itself. Since it does not stack it sounds like it applies to the armor rather than the wearer.
Thanks Brain in a jar :) I appreciate the clarity.
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I didn't mean to cause a thing. I guess I was asking if an enhancement bonus on armor applies to the person wearing it or to the armor itself. Since it does not stack it sounds like it applies to the armor rather than the wearer.
Thanks Brain in a jar :) I appreciate the clarity.
Yeah, that's the right of it, the armor's enhancement bonus applies to that armor's AC. That indirectly effects the PC since it increases the armor's AC, but not directly effects the PC.
The Cavalier gets some class features similar to those of a Paladin or Anti-Paladin without all the possibly problematic alignment issues. It shouldn't matter too much how well the goblin moves on his own if he's usually riding a mount (and Cavaliers get to ignore their armor check penalty on Ride checks)
Anyhow, I'd be even more worried about putting 1st level PCs on a ship with a 20th level NPC captain. I suppose that could be handled well, but it would be easy for it to go wrong too.
TECHNICALLY, there's no rule that a paladin cannot worship Lamashtu. Paladins are not clerics, their divine powers are not delivered by nor dependent on the gods. Now, he couldn't associate with other lamashtu followers of course, barring the occasional chaotic neutral, or other confused oddball. But maybe he believes the mother of monsters is redeemable. Maybe he reveres some other aspect she covers - motherhood, perhaps.
Maybe he doesn't even think about it. Maybe he "worships Lamashtu" because he's a goblin, and goblins worship Lamashtu. Goblins also worship tree stumps, spooky noises, and large goiters. They're not known for spiritual depth.
Now for the core question, can a goblin have the highest AC in the party? Well, no reason he couldn't. But there's nothing special for being a goblin that would make it so.
Of course, high AC just means that the bad guys ignore you to go after easier targets.
TECHNICALLY, there's no rule that a paladin cannot worship Lamashtu. Paladins are not clerics, their divine powers are not delivered by nor dependent on the gods. Now, he couldn't associate with other lamashtu followers of course, barring the occasional chaotic neutral, or other confused oddball. But maybe he believes the mother of monsters is redeemable. Maybe he reveres some other aspect she covers - motherhood, perhaps.
Maybe he doesn't even think about it. Maybe he "worships Lamashtu" because he's a goblin, and goblins worship Lamashtu. Goblins also worship tree stumps, spooky noises, and large goiters. They're not known for spiritual depth.
If we are speaking of Golarion (which i assume we are since Lamashtu) then a Paladin can only worship LG, LN, or NG.
Even taking away the campaign setting how/why would a Lawful Good Paladin (restriction from Paladin) with the Paladin Code worship a CE Demon Goddess? It doesn't make sense.
I'm not speaking of a restriction like a Cleric. It makes no sense for a person that identifies as Lawful Good to pay lip service to a CE demon god.
He should play a redeemer half orc and believe that Lamashtu can change.
Even taking away the campaign setting how/why would a Lawful Good Paladin (restriction from Paladin) with the Paladin Code worship a CE Demon Goddess?
Goblins worship all sorts of things, and they're not exactly theology Ph.D.'s.
A lawful good goblin (paladin) might well worship Lamashtu because of tribal tradition.
Even taking away the campaign setting how/why would a Lawful Good Paladin (restriction from Paladin) with the Paladin Code worship a CE Demon Goddess?
Goblins worship all sorts of things, and they're not exactly theology Ph.D.'s.
A lawful good goblin (paladin) might well worship Lamashtu because of tribal tradition.
Perhaps. Ignorance could lead to this.
Up until he realizes any of this is Not Appropriate For a Paladin
So any tradition passed down would almost immediately break the Paladin Code.
No Paladin would worship Lamashtu.
Even taking away the campaign setting how/why would a Lawful Good Paladin (restriction from Paladin) with the Paladin Code worship a CE Demon Goddess?
Goblins worship all sorts of things, and they're not exactly theology Ph.D.'s.
A lawful good goblin (paladin) might well worship Lamashtu because of tribal tradition.
Perhaps. Ignorance could lead to this.
Up until he realizes any of this is Not Appropriate For a Paladin
.... which, given the level of intelligence and self-awareness typical of a goblin.... or for that matter, of a paladin,... could be reasonably expected to take centuries before that realization hits.
Cafeteria Catholicism is a thing. So, therefore, is Cafeteria Lamashtism.
Even taking away the campaign setting how/why would a Lawful Good Paladin (restriction from Paladin) with the Paladin Code worship a CE Demon Goddess?
Goblins worship all sorts of things, and they're not exactly theology Ph.D.'s.
A lawful good goblin (paladin) might well worship Lamashtu because of tribal tradition.
Perhaps. Ignorance could lead to this.
Up until he realizes any of this is Not Appropriate For a Paladin
.... which, given the level of intelligence and self-awareness typical of a goblin.... or for that matter, of a paladin,... could be reasonably expected to take centuries before that realization hits.
Cafeteria Catholicism is a thing. So, therefore, is Cafeteria Lamashtism.
Sure.
I guess thats true as long as you think a Paladin could follow his code.
Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
All the while dealing with Lamashtu worshipers.
So yeah i guess a Goblin Paladin that heard the name, knows nothing of it, never meets another Lamashtu follower, and lives under a rock. Could worship "Lamashtu".
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A special snowflake paladin GMPC who worships an evil goddess and frontlines every combat?
What could possibly go wrong?
choosing to worship an inappropriate deity is an innately chaotic act, as you're redefining what is for what you want it to be, twisting things around to suit you.
That's not a LG code of behavior.
No, the goblin cannot worship Lamashtu. And that's even before he Falls for willfully offering prayers to a CE entity.
==Aelryinth
My question would be more directed towards:
"How did the goblin became a paladin to begin with?"
and less
"Why is a LG paladin worshipping a CE goddess?"
Not that it isn't possible for a Goblin Paladin to exist as Succubus Paladins are a thing after all.
I played in a seafaring campaign as a LG Undine Paladin of Bokrug (CN) and as a Paladin I upheld my deities "areas of concern" which were Revenge, Water and Destruction. My primary weapon was a Ranseur as it was my deities weapon. my secondary weapons were a Net and Trident.
For those not familiar, Bokrug is from the pantheon of "Great Old Ones", a pantheon that Cthulhu is home as well to in Golarion.'
EDIT: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodIsNotNice
If we are speaking of Golarion (which i assume we are since Lamashtu) then a Paladin can only worship LG, LN, or NG.
Pretty sure this is only for PFS play. The paladin himself has to be lawful Good, of course, but there's no reason he couldn't revere say, Desna.
I'll grant Lamashtu is a pretty big stretch. but again... Goblins are dumb.
Even taking away the campaign setting how/why would a Lawful Good Paladin (restriction from Paladin) with the Paladin Code worship a CE Demon Goddess? It doesn't make sense.
I'm not speaking of a restriction like a Cleric. It makes no sense for a person that identifies as Lawful Good to pay lip service to a CE demon god.
It's a goblin paladin. We have to assume that this character is not prone to making sound life choices.
Indeed, super high AC, easy to get as a Gobo paladin, worship evil goddess, not so much, as other have noted, the very tenants of Lamashtu over all go against paladinhood and paladin code. In theory the goblin would fall from grace the second he prayed to his goddess.
Ac however, high Dex, + a shield, + size bonus, + light armor, dodge feat, and many others would indeed make a high AC gobo paladin who could easily have highest AC of the party. That is not even factoring the AC bonus when using smite.
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My friend wants to make a goblin paladin of lamoshto and have him be the tank for the party, but it doesnt seem all that right for a sea fairing campaign
(1) Get large pot of molten adamantine.
(2) Tell goblin paladin there is a tasty rat in the pot.(3) Push goblin in.
(4) Enchant adamantine to +5.
The goblin now has the highest AC in the party, *AND* serves as the ship's anchor! Win!
Pretty sure this is only for PFS play. The paladin himself has to be lawful Good, of course, but there's no reason he couldn't revere say, Desna.
I'll grant Lamashtu is a pretty big stretch. but again... Goblins are dumb.
It's like that in PFS play since its set in Golarion.
Golarion = No Paladins of Desna
It's a goblin paladin. We have to assume that this character is not prone to making sound life choices.
The race of the paladin doesn't matter. All that matters is the Paladin part and upholding the code.
The fact that a goblin in spite of all the evil, destruction, killing, and cruelty of his goblin-kind around them decided to stand for what is right and good in the world is what matters.
I would love to see a gobo boat pally played, but if I were the GM of this game, I would absolutely require that the player keep to an appropriate god, but to each their own.