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Would any of those here allow this feat in any campaign they run, is there an issue with giving the likes of a Fighter, Rogue, Cavalier, Monk, Brawler, or other non-spellcasting classes the ability to have an extra standard action each turn? In this case, likely to make another attack.
Physical Adept
You constantly focus on training your body, often while your allies prepare their spells for the day.
Prerequisite: Athletic, no caster level.
Benefit: You can take an extra standard action at the beginning or end of your round. This standard action must be used for a purely physical action such as making an attack, readying an item, moving, or trying to lift or break something. You may do this once per day, plus once per day for every four full levels you have.
Special: If you have this feat and gain a caster level, you may immediately decide to permanently forgo any spellcasting ability and retain this feat. If you do not make this decision this feat is lost, and cannot be replaced.
Edit: Also, this feat was created by the 3rd Party group Rogue Genius Games
With out the theatrics i Think i would. Also to spell casters but it wouldent work in a round with spell casting. And i Think i would Call it a swift action move, attack, somthing in stead.
I'd say it needs to have a higher BAB requirement like +4 or +6. Otherwise we'll see Barbarians getting two attacks in on one charge at level 1.
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As I have just added above, this is a Rogue Genius Games feat.
Honestly, I would feel the wording of the feat is clear enough to imply that the feat can be used only once per round as you gain this extra standard action once each round.
Personally I like the flavor and balance of allowing only non-spellcasters to use the feat as it means it gives a neat trick that a Fighter, Rogue, and Monk can use (considered three of the weakest classes) can use but not a Wizard, Cleric, Druid, exc.
I would personally rule that racial spell like abilities do not count towards this restriction, that the restrictions on spellcasting classes not spell like abilities unrelated to class.
Though for the likes of a Rogue taking Minor and Major magic or a race with spell like abilities, they just can't use the additional standard action Physical Adept offers the same round they cast one of their limited use spells.
This is how I currently interpret the feat.
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I'd say it needs to have a higher BAB requirement like +4 or +6. Otherwise we'll see Barbarians getting two attacks in on one charge at level 1.
A possible concern but that restriction would hurt both the fighter and very much the rogue, which would most benefit from the extra damage having an additional attack would offer. I feel it would be too restrictive to add such a requirement.
What if a player wants to play a 1st level human Brawler that takes Athletic and Physical Adept as their starting feats? Which is another point... only humans could really benefit from this feat at first level with perhaps another race if they have an alternate racial ability that that gives them a free bonus feat.
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The effect is decent enough, but the execution is (like most Rogue Genius products) very poor, and oddly worded.
They could have nearly copied the Monk of the Four Winds' Slow Time ability word for word and it would have been less wonky.
At 12th level, a monk of the four winds can use his ki to slow time or quicken his movements, depending on the observer.[s] [s]As a swift action once per day, and an additional time for every 4 levels you have the user can the monk can expend 6 ki points to take three two standard actions during his turn instead of just one. The monk You can use these actions to do the following: take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. The monk cannot use these actions to cast spells or use spell-like abilities, and cannot combine them to take full-attack actions. Any move actions the monk makes this turn do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Completed text:
Once per day, and an additional time for every 4 levels you have, you can take two Standard actions during your turn instead of just one. You can use these actions to do the following: take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action.You cannot use these actions to cast spells or use spell-like abilities, and cannot combine them to take full-attack actions.
Still kinda wonky, but better and clearer than what's written at least.
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I disagree one Qinggong Monk being required for all monks, very much so, but even if it was does the archetype give the Monk a spellcaster level? If not I don't see the problem, nor how it would effect some races taking the feat. Some races may benefit more then others, but again unless I am mistaken spells gained through race doesn't make the race a spellcaster level?
Rynjin
Doesn't that make the feat weaker though? The above feat seems clearly intended that it would be used once every round if they do a physical action, while the one above as a limited use 'times per day' based on level.
Rynjin
Doesn't that make the feat weaker though? The above feat seems clearly intended that it would be used once every round if they do a physical action, while the one above as a limited use 'times per day' based on level.
...Which is exactly the same as Physical Adept in uses. Go back and read the last line of the text.
Replace "no caster level" with "levels in a class that grants spellcasting" and the Qinggong issues are immediately resolved. I'm 100% positive that's what they meant anyways.
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Updated Feat
Physical Adept
You constantly focus on training your body, often while your allies prepare their spells for the day.
Prerequisite: Athletic, no levels in a class that grants spellcasting.
Benefit: Upon gaining these feat the user may make an extra standard action per round once per day and an additional time per day every 4 levels you have. This extra standard action may be used to do the following: make a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. You cannot use this extra standard action to cast spells or use spell-like abilities, and cannot combine it with the standard action you already have to take full-attack actions.
Special: If you have this feat and later gain a level in a class that grants spellcasting, you may immediately decide to permanently forge taking a level in this class and retain this feat. If you do not make this decision this feat is lost, and cannot be replaced.
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...Which is exactly the same as Physical Adept in uses. Go back and read the last line of the text.Again, I apologize. I might have missed that and I had gotten caught up in the moment. I was mistaken in thinking it was with every round and didn't have the times per day mechanic.
I have revised the feat to match up with suggestions, though that may begin putting it into homebrewing.
I don't really see why the "no caster level" restriction is necessary in the first place, really. Removing it lets Inquisitors and Bards and Magi get in on the fun.
I think the point is ensuring Inquisitors and Bards and Magi don't get in on the fun. They have spells instead, after all.
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Rynjin
Personally I would be against it, as this is a feat clearly intended to be a trick for non-spellcasters that give them something a spellcaster cannot. That and an extra standard action would help a combater to better fulfill their role in the party.
I feel it would be unfair to allow Inquisitors, Bards, and Magi to have access to the feat given they have access to spellcasting as well and this is for the physical classes that forgoes magical powers of a spellcaster class.
The character is meant to be a Physical Adept not one who relies on spells to get a job done or magical might.
...and cannot combine it with the standard action you already have to take full-attack actions.
I don't understand this part really. The original feat's intention is, IMO, to use it mostly for moving so you can take a full attack action. Your rewrite invalidates this, if I am reading this correctly.
Well, it certainly feels so. IMO, original wording is clear enough, you can just tweak the prerequisites (Feats of Battle, the book in which this feat appears is strictly excluding gnomes, monks and true spellcasters, but your version of prerequisites is reasonable).
....
Rynjin
Doesn't that make the feat weaker though? The above feat seems clearly intended that it would be used once every round if they do a physical action, while the one above as a limited use 'times per day' based on level.
What you suggest here is madness IMOP. But the feat do say once pr 4 levels.
Edit: for precision.
What the feat is "intended" for doesn't matter much since it took us an hour to totally rewrite it.
And would also raise the question of what you would do with Heroic Surge (same thing, minus the anti-caster parts), which is "clearly intended" for everybody.
Especially since, while I'd have to check (and probably won't because that's too much work for a moot point), I'd bet that Heroic Surge came first.
Yes, but while I would take original Physical Adept, I would never take the rewrite that doesn't let me have a move+full attack. I don't know what Heroic Surge is and frankly don't care since I'm commenting a what I feel is a bad rewrite of a feat.
EDIT: Ha, I found the Heroic Surge. It's a d20Modern feat. Really relevant here.
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Necromental
Actually such restrictions makes sense when you get right down too it and once I had a moment to think on it. Gnomes are a smaller race that take pride in their magical heritage, as such wouldn't be the best fit for Physical Adept. Monk have at times for years been criticized for being too mystical or magical of a fighter despite the fact that it still manages to be considered underpowered by many. True spellcasters... well they depend on their spells and magical powers, often times excluding their physical stats in favor of mental stats.
I do understand your consideration though and feel it couldn't hurt to remove that last line, how about this:
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Physical Adept
You constantly focus on training your body, often while your allies prepare their spells for the day.
Prerequisite: Athletic, no levels in a class that grants spellcasting.
Benefit: Upon gaining these feat the user may make an extra standard action per round once per day and an additional time per day every 4 levels you have. This extra standard action may be used to do the following: make a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. You cannot use this extra standard action to cast spells or use spell-like abilities.
Special: If you have this feat and later gain a level in a class that grants spellcasting, you may immediately decide to permanently forge taking a level in this class and retain this feat. If you do not make this decision this feat is lost, and cannot be replaced.
it's just poorly worded because it was copied into the feat without comparing the differences between the feat and the Monk ability.
Well, this. I understand the point of the wording now. Wonky as anything, and I stand by my statement that original wording is clear enough.
As for Heroic Surge and restriction of Physical Adept, well the later is probably the copy of the former, but same restriction is in many of the feats in Feats of Battle. Intention was probably giving martials exclusive toys (a sentiment I can get behind).
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@ Kestral287
Actually it is not 'because the feat that it's now loosely based on is that way" but the very point of why the feat was built the way it was. We can perhaps strength the flavor, better justify such a limitation, but the point is that one who would take this feat for non-spellcasters.
We can discuss allowing one to retrain the feat if the player decides to take a level in a spellcaster class, though I do have some concern on whether or not the player would rpleplay such a chance in direction for their character.
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Sighs... how would both of you rewrite it then? Where it offers the same benefit for a restriction that works, rewording the feat as it were.
Really, apart from revising the feat to work as intended I can't seem much more that can be done.
I like the feat, or at least the idea behind it, and I feel classes like fighter, rogue, brawler, barbarian, could use the benefit of the feat to help them even somewhat compete with spellcasters (especially full casters).
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That works, though I could think of a few other feats from the book Feats of Battle by Rogue Genius Games that would need to have the same changes in prerequisites since a number have the same restriction as shown before.
Hmm, thankfully it is the same feat in benefit... just with different wording and prerequisites have been altered. I will admit it simplifies the feat and makes the effect clearer to understand.
Thanks for the rewrite, I had this feat in mind for a particular NPC and for my players if they decided to take a more combative route.
The best version of the feat is the original one.
Frak Qinggong Monks. If you want to be a pseudo caster you lose this single advantage of being pure martial. And frak gnomes and other SLA races.
The only thing I would change is include extract makers as having caster levels for the purpose of this feat and allow it to be retrained if you get a level in a class with caster level. Mostly because this feat was published before Alchemists existed and before there were retraining rules.
I really, really think this feat needs to be kept exclusively within the realms of classes that have no spellcasting ability. Casters are constantly stealing martial tricks, the Fighter and it's cousins really need some things it can do that the Magus can't.