The reason that magi are perceived to "stall out" at higher levels is that it's hard to scale up from "obscene".
Ehhh. I ran the numbers and the 18th level magus averages 239.785 DPR against AC 30, and that's with two spellstrikes per round. I have an NPC bloodrager who's level 17 and much more poorly equipped (PC vs. NPC wealth) who averages 342.9 DPR against the same AC. Bump it up to AC 35 and the magi's DPR drops down to 182 (24% drop) while the bloodrager's DPR only drops down to 304.8 (11% drop). Hard to call the magus damage obscene when the lower level and worse equipped bloodrager does 43% more DPR against a mediocre AC and 67% more damage against a decent AC.
Edit: Ok, so I re-ran the numbers for optimizing spellstrike damage (an intensifed, empowered, maximized shocking grasp + an intensified, empowered, quickened shocking grasp each round) and it did bump the DPR up to a more respectable 333.645/276.9 (AC 30 / AC 35). So perhaps that's the answer, although I don't like it.
Ring of Spell Knowledge or Page of Spell Knowledge with some Use Magic Device checks (helped out by high-charisma) should allow them to be able to cast Mage Armor. Alternately, have them use a wand with UMD, only a 20 check (18 if they've successfully used that wand before).
Neither of those are usable by a magus as they're both only usable by spontaneous casters.
Precise strike, you can loremaster to get spell perfection earlier then 15th but sacrifice capstone.Unless I am missing something I do not see how the loremaster lets you get Spell perfection early. Even with the instant skill secret which gives you 4 ranks you are still limited to your level in ranks.
What am I missing?
Pretty sure you're not missing anything. I know of no shortcut that allows you to gain more ranks in a skill than you have hit dice. Furthermore, magus doesn't qualify for loremaster until 16th level unless you take the spell blending arcana to get a divination spell from the wiz/sorc list.
Ring of Spell Knowledge or Page of Spell Knowledge with some Use Magic Device checks (helped out by high-charisma) should allow them to be able to cast Mage Armor. Alternately, have them use a wand with UMD, only a 20 check (18 if they've successfully used that wand before).Neither of those are usable by a magus as they're both only usable by spontaneous casters.
I assume that's why he called out Use Magic Device, which generally lets you break the rules of who can use what.
UMD allows you to emulate a class.
The Ring and Page of SPell Knowledge require you to be a spontaneous spellcaster.
Those are two different things. UMD does not allow you to emulate spontaneous spellcasting ability.
The trick does not work.
==Aelryinth
UMD allows you to emulate a class.
The Ring and Page of SPell Knowledge require you to be a spontaneous spellcaster.
Those are two different things. UMD does not allow you to emulate spontaneous spellcasting ability.
The trick does not work.
==Aelryinth
Reread UMD. DC 20 to emulate a class feature. Spontaneous spellcasting is certainly a class feature.
Honestly, if you're spending that many points on UMD you might as well just use wands of mage armor. The spell lasts for 2 hours at CL 1, it's a great thing to have in a wand.
Celestial Armor is still miles better than Mage Armor. Also, Spell Perfection doubles the effect of Intensify, upgrading the damage cap to 15d6. 90 damage in a first level spell slot.
Celestial Armor is still miles better than Mage Armor. Also, Spell Perfection doubles the effect of Intensify, upgrading the damage cap to 15d6. 90 damage in a first level spell slot.
Hmm, are you sure Spell Perfection interacts with Intensified Spell like that?
The reason that magi are perceived to "stall out" at higher levels is that it's hard to scale up from "obscene".Ehhh. I ran the numbers and the 18th level magus averages 239.785 DPR against AC 30, and that's with two spellstrikes per round. I have an NPC bloodrager who's level 17 and much more poorly equipped (PC vs. NPC wealth) who averages 342.9 DPR against the same AC. Bump it up to AC 35 and the magi's DPR drops down to 182 (24% drop) while the bloodrager's DPR only drops down to 304.8 (11% drop). Hard to call the magus damage obscene when the lower level and worse equipped bloodrager does 43% more DPR against a mediocre AC and 67% more damage against a decent AC.
Edit: Ok, so I re-ran the numbers for optimizing spellstrike damage (an intensifed, empowered, maximized shocking grasp + an intensified, empowered, quickened shocking grasp each round) and it did bump the DPR up to a more respectable 333.645/276.9 (AC 30 / AC 35). So perhaps that's the answer, although I don't like it.
What buffs are up in your simulation? How many attacks are you assuming pr round? My level 18 magus simulation using haste as only buff said 400ish DPR with 2 empowered frostbite vs AC 30. And 345 vs. 35, a Big drop. But he have the option of dropping one attack to let the other 5 go after touch AC.
Celestial Armor is still miles better than Mage Armor. Also, Spell Perfection doubles the effect of Intensify, upgrading the damage cap to 15d6. 90 damage in a first level spell slot.Hmm, are you sure Spell Perfection interacts with Intensified Spell like that?
i am pretty sure it dosent. At least i find no basis for saying that it does. Intensify dosent provide a numerical bonus.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Spell Perfection
You are unequaled at the casting of one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks, at least three metamagic feats.
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
So, the italic part of spell perfection explicitly calls for doubling set numerical bonuses granted by feats that applies to an aspect of the spells. The bolded part specify that this bonus applies only when said feat is applicable, so by extension it is inferred that it also applies to feat that are not "always on", like for example metamagic.
Now, Intensify states
Intensified Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can go beyond several normal limitations.
Benefit: An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat. No other variables of the spell are affected, and spells that inflict damage that is not modified by caster level are not affected by this feat. An intensified spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
The bolded part states that no other variables of the spells are affected. That means that dice cap is considered in itself a variable.
So in conclusion, Intensified Spells apply a bonus of 5 to an aspect (one of the variables) of the spell. That means that, if Intensified is a feat and 5 is a set numerical bonus, said bonus is doubled by Spell Perfection.
Spell Perfection
You are unequaled at the casting of one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks, at least three metamagic feats.
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
So, the italic part of spell perfection explicitly calls for doubling set numerical bonuses granted by feats that applies to an aspect of the spells. The bolded part specify that this bonus applies only when said feat is applicable, so by extension it is inferred that it also applies to feat that are not "always on", like for example metamagic.
Now, Intensify states
Intensified Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can go beyond several normal limitations.
Benefit: An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat. No other variables of the spell are affected, and spells that inflict damage that is not modified by caster level are not affected by this feat. An intensified spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
The bolded part states that no other variables of the spells are affected. That means that dice cap is considered in itself a variable.
So in conclusion, Intensified Spells apply a bonus of 5 to an aspect (one of the variables) of the spell. That means that, if Intensified is a feat and 5 is a set numerical bonus, said bonus is doubled by Spell...
i am in a hurry so i cannot explain now. But your Logic is not logical.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just wanted to point out that i'm not professing it as universal truth, I'm just explaining my personal reasoning. If someone care to dispute i'll gladly accept the debate. Just don't take it personal.
What buffs are up in your simulation? How many attacks are you assuming pr round? My level 18 magus simulation using haste as only buff said 400ish DPR with 2 empowered frostbite vs AC 30. And 345 vs. 35, a Big drop. But he have the option of dropping one attack to let the other 5 go after touch AC.
Buffs are Shield, Haste, Heroism, Fire Shield, Unerring Weapon, Locate Weakness, Blur, Overland Flight. The simulation was run with 3 iterative attacks, 1 haste attack, and 2 spellstrikes.
Does your magus have precise strike? I statted this magus up before the ACG came out, so no precise strike. I haven't yet decided if I want to do some arcana swaps in order to include it.
Reread UMD. DC 20 to emulate a class feature. Spontaneous spellcasting is certainly a class feature.UMD allows you to emulate a class.
The Ring and Page of SPell Knowledge require you to be a spontaneous spellcaster.
Those are two different things. UMD does not allow you to emulate spontaneous spellcasting ability.
The trick does not work.
==Aelryinth
Emulating a class feature does not give you Spells Known, or any of the other abilities which would actually let this trick work.
To pull this off, you have to actually have Spells Known to put the spell into memory, you need Spells castable (as the only way to cast spells known), and Spontaneous spellcasting qualification simultaneously, which is not possible with a UMD check. You'd also have to finagle access to the appropriate spell list to be eligible for putting the spell into your list of Spells Known, which is not a listed class feature, either.
UMD allows you to activate an item. If the functions of that item rely on you actually having an ability that you don't, it's still unusuable.
So, Pages of Spell Knowledge to give you extra Spells Known when you don't have any Spells Known flat out fails. Ditto the Ring. You could potentially activate both...they go looking for someplace to put the spells, you don't have it, and fail.
==Aelryinth
Just wanted to point out that i'm not professing it as universal truth, I'm just explaining my personal reasoning. If someone care to dispute i'll gladly accept the debate. Just don't take it personal.
IT's pretty much been accepted that elective metamagic feats are themselves a variable, non-constant effect, and so don't apply to a spell.
Spell Perfection is referring to constant, always-on bonuses that are flat numbers and completely non-variable, like Spell Focus and SPell Penetration.
Optional Metamagic effects are inherently variable and not included.
==Aelryinth
What buffs are up in your simulation? How many attacks are you assuming pr round? My level 18 magus simulation using haste as only buff said 400ish DPR with 2 empowered frostbite vs AC 30. And 345 vs. 35, a Big drop. But he have the option of dropping one attack to let the other 5 go after touch AC.Buffs are Shield, Haste, Heroism, Fire Shield, Unerring Weapon, Locate Weakness, Blur, Overland Flight. The simulation was run with 3 iterative attacks, 1 haste attack, and 2 spellstrikes.
Does your magus have precise strike? I statted this magus up before the ACG came out, so no precise strike. I haven't yet decided if I want to do some arcana swaps in order to include it.
the magus in question is a goblin and he have precise strike yes. +18 pr attack May account for some of the difference:)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just wanted to point out that i'm not professing it as universal truth, I'm just explaining my personal reasoning. If someone care to dispute i'll gladly accept the debate. Just don't take it personal.IT's pretty much been accepted that elective metamagic feats are themselves a variable, non-constant effect, and so don't apply to a spell.
Spell Perfection is referring to constant, always-on bonuses that are flat numbers and completely non-variable, like Spell Focus and SPell Penetration.
Optional Metamagic effects are inherently variable and not included
Intensified is certanly not variable in that the bonus it gives is always a flat 5. That is IMHO not debatable.
About the need for the effect to be constant, this requirement is nowhere found in the text. It's only inferred by the examples, that by their nature are not exaustive. And I also addressed that point explicitly.Spell Perfection says
" double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell".
If they meant to be applied only to "always on" effects it could have been writed as
" double the bonus granted by that feat to this spell".
I elect to believe that the words "when applied to" are not there just for show since word count is a thing in publishing, but they where put there to infere that said bonus may not be always applicable. Like Point Blank Shot, Power Attack or Metamagic feats.
Anywhay, this is my last offtopic, I excuse myself for derailing the topic a bit.
|
The reason that magi are perceived to "stall out" at higher levels is that it's hard to scale up from "obscene".Ehhh. I ran the numbers and the 18th level magus averages 239.785 DPR against AC 30,
What are you fighting at 18th level with only an AC 30? AC 38-40 should be on the low end of anything that's a threat.
What are you fighting at 18th level with only an AC 30? AC 38-40 should be on the low end of anything that's a threat.The reason that magi are perceived to "stall out" at higher levels is that it's hard to scale up from "obscene".Ehhh. I ran the numbers and the 18th level magus averages 239.785 DPR against AC 30,
AC 30 is around what you expect from a CR 15 creature. At level 18 figthing things like that is not unusual they wont be alone but it is not unreasonable.
Can you describe a typical level 18 encounter for your group?
The reason that magi are perceived to "stall out" at higher levels is that it's hard to scale up from "obscene".Ehhh. I ran the numbers and the 18th level magus averages 239.785 DPR against AC 30, and that's with two spellstrikes per round. I have an NPC bloodrager who's level 17 and much more poorly equipped (PC vs. NPC wealth) who averages 342.9 DPR against the same AC. Bump it up to AC 35 and the magi's DPR drops down to 182 (24% drop) while the bloodrager's DPR only drops down to 304.8 (11% drop). Hard to call the magus damage obscene when the lower level and worse equipped bloodrager does 43% more DPR against a mediocre AC and 67% more damage against a decent AC.
Edit: Ok, so I re-ran the numbers for optimizing spellstrike damage (an intensifed, empowered, maximized shocking grasp + an intensified, empowered, quickened shocking grasp each round) and it did bump the DPR up to a more respectable 333.645/276.9 (AC 30 / AC 35). So perhaps that's the answer, although I don't like it.
I'm curious about this, can you post the builds you used for each of these please? I haven't played high level much and I'm trying to figure how you get all that damage.
|
|
What are you fighting at 18th level with only an AC 30? AC 38-40 should be on the low end of anything that's a threat.The reason that magi are perceived to "stall out" at higher levels is that it's hard to scale up from "obscene".Ehhh. I ran the numbers and the 18th level magus averages 239.785 DPR against AC 30,AC 30 is around what you expect from a CR 15 creature. At level 18 figthing things like that is not unusual they wont be alone but it is not unreasonable.
Can you describe a typical level 18 encounter for your group?
Only if it's naked is a CR 15's average AC merely 30. Most things by that level boost their AC much higher than when naked due to gear.
And even when naked - if only at AC30 they'll often have other defenses. (miss chances/DR etc)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What are you fighting at 18th level with only an AC 30? AC 38-40 should be on the low end of anything that's a threat.The reason that magi are perceived to "stall out" at higher levels is that it's hard to scale up from "obscene".Ehhh. I ran the numbers and the 18th level magus averages 239.785 DPR against AC 30,AC 30 is around what you expect from a CR 15 creature. At level 18 figthing things like that is not unusual they wont be alone but it is not unreasonable.
Can you describe a typical level 18 encounter for your group?Only if it's naked is a CR 15's average AC merely 30. Most things by that level boost their AC much higher than when naked due to gear.
And even when naked - if only at AC30 they'll often have other defenses. (miss chances/DR etc)
This is not a place for CR discussions but in the beastiary the suggested AC for a CR 15 thing is 30 and that dosent matter if it is naked or not. The other thing may be a Way to slow Down level progression but that is all it is.
Edit: but i am still interested in your typical encounter for a level 18 group.
Reread UMD. DC 20 to emulate a class feature. Spontaneous spellcasting is certainly a class feature.UMD allows you to emulate a class.
The Ring and Page of SPell Knowledge require you to be a spontaneous spellcaster.
Those are two different things. UMD does not allow you to emulate spontaneous spellcasting ability.
The trick does not work.
==Aelryinth
Emulating a class feature does not give you Spells Known, or any of the other abilities which would actually let this trick work.
To pull this off, you have to actually have Spells Known to put the spell into memory, you need Spells castable (as the only way to cast spells known), and Spontaneous spellcasting qualification simultaneously, which is not possible with a UMD check. You'd also have to finagle access to the appropriate spell list to be eligible for putting the spell into your list of Spells Known, which is not a listed class feature, either.
UMD allows you to activate an item. If the functions of that item rely on you actually having an ability that you don't, it's still unusuable.
So, Pages of Spell Knowledge to give you extra Spells Known when you don't have any Spells Known flat out fails. Ditto the Ring. You could potentially activate both...they go looking for someplace to put the spells, you don't have it, and fail.
==Aelryinth
You're certainly entitled to your opinion and to rule it however you choose in a game you run, however I hope you can admit that your version requires reading a lot more into the rules (or making it up) than is actually written anywhere.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion and to rule it however you choose in a game you run, however I hope you can admit that your version requires reading a lot more into the rules (or making it up) than is actually written anywhere.Reread UMD. DC 20 to emulate a class feature. Spontaneous spellcasting is certainly a class feature.UMD allows you to emulate a class.
The Ring and Page of SPell Knowledge require you to be a spontaneous spellcaster.
Those are two different things. UMD does not allow you to emulate spontaneous spellcasting ability.
The trick does not work.
==Aelryinth
Emulating a class feature does not give you Spells Known, or any of the other abilities which would actually let this trick work.
To pull this off, you have to actually have Spells Known to put the spell into memory, you need Spells castable (as the only way to cast spells known), and Spontaneous spellcasting qualification simultaneously, which is not possible with a UMD check. You'd also have to finagle access to the appropriate spell list to be eligible for putting the spell into your list of Spells Known, which is not a listed class feature, either.
UMD allows you to activate an item. If the functions of that item rely on you actually having an ability that you don't, it's still unusuable.
So, Pages of Spell Knowledge to give you extra Spells Known when you don't have any Spells Known flat out fails. Ditto the Ring. You could potentially activate both...they go looking for someplace to put the spells, you don't have it, and fail.
==Aelryinth
I Think your version is the one that goes beyond what is written.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion and to rule it however you choose in a game you run, however I hope you can admit that your version requires reading a lot more into the rules (or making it up) than is actually written anywhere.Reread UMD. DC 20 to emulate a class feature. Spontaneous spellcasting is certainly a class feature.UMD allows you to emulate a class.
The Ring and Page of SPell Knowledge require you to be a spontaneous spellcaster.
Those are two different things. UMD does not allow you to emulate spontaneous spellcasting ability.
The trick does not work.
==Aelryinth
Emulating a class feature does not give you Spells Known, or any of the other abilities which would actually let this trick work.
To pull this off, you have to actually have Spells Known to put the spell into memory, you need Spells castable (as the only way to cast spells known), and Spontaneous spellcasting qualification simultaneously, which is not possible with a UMD check. You'd also have to finagle access to the appropriate spell list to be eligible for putting the spell into your list of Spells Known, which is not a listed class feature, either.
UMD allows you to activate an item. If the functions of that item rely on you actually having an ability that you don't, it's still unusuable.
So, Pages of Spell Knowledge to give you extra Spells Known when you don't have any Spells Known flat out fails. Ditto the Ring. You could potentially activate both...they go looking for someplace to put the spells, you don't have it, and fail.
==Aelryinth
In counterpoint, you are also entitled to your variant style of play and extremely liberal interpretation of the word 'emulate' also allowing you to "actually acquire" the ability in question so you can use your favorite form of magic item rules abuse within the confines of your home game legally.
However, a clear reading of the rules does indeed never say that you actually 'get' the ability in question, and so you must be making up several paragraphs of rules on what you do and don't get when using UMD.
Have fun with your variant rules, as such an ability does not exist in the core game.
==Aelryinth
@CLH - It's projection at this point because that encounter is still a long ways off. The PCs are only level 9 right now and that encounter isn't going to occur until they're around level 16. If the party is averaging high 30s or better ACs then I'm definitely going to have to get the character a higher to hit total. The problem is that both Arcane Strike and Arcane Accuracy both eat up your swift action, so I'll have to dig elsewhere for bonuses.
@Capt. Darling - See above. Group isn't to the point where they're encountering that kind of high level stuff.
@stealthymonkeyman - Applicable Knowledge doesn't help you get early entry because nothing about the ability allows you to bypass feat prerequisites.
From what I can tell the intent seems that you qualify for "Any one feat", "Any one feat" for purpose of requirements is "Any One Feat". with the narrow reading of the class feature overwriting the general, however feel free to disagree as it does not seem so clear cut, the word "Any" does not say "Any one you qualify for" nor should it be implied to say so. Any is Any and in this case in my opinion many.
This is incorrect. You must always meet the prerequisites for a feat in order to select it unless the class ability that's granting you the feat specifically states that you do not have to meet the prerequisites.
Furthermore, every ability [of which I'm aware] that exists which does grant a feat for which you can ignore prerequisites does so from a specific, limited list of feats.
...
Incidentally, Bane Blade has been brought up of being questionably useful. One of the nicer edges that it has is that it lets a high-level Magus make use of a mere +4 weapon like it's a +10-- Bane Blade is written very differently from the other arcanas that add properties to the Magus' enhancement ability.
Insofar as actual damage output: We'll work with level 15 (when Bane Blade comes in) versus AC30 (Monster Creation Chart average for CR15). Assume Haste and Heroism are in play. Figure Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp with Spell Combat and Intensified Empowered Quickened Shocking Grasp, both delivered via Spellstrike. I worked with a Str/Dex of 26, derived from starting at 18, +6 from a Belt, and +2 from levels. The weapon is a +5 Keen Spell Storing rapier [Though it's a good choice, Spell Storing will be ignored here because its damage is fixed], after Magus enhancement. Precise Strike is in play.
Thus we get:
Normal attack: 27.3375
BAB-5: 18.225
BAB-10: 9.1125
Spellstrike: 119.2125Total damage is 201.225. With Quicken it jumps to 320.4375
Add Bane:
Normal attack: 40.9275
BAB-5: 28.89
BAB-10: 16.8525...
i dont undestand your calculations( i May be slow, i know) but it does look like i need to look at bane again. It May be worth having for those times where the bad guy dosent fall in one round. Aka BBEG figth.
The calculations are the dpr formula:
(damage + precision damage)*hit rate + crit rate*crit confirmation rate*(crit bonus damage -1)*damage
In this case:
damage: 3.5 (weapon) + 8 (Str/Dex) + 5 (weapon)=16.5
precision damage: 15 (precise strike)
hit rate: With a total to-hit of +25 (+11 BAB, +8 Str/Dex, +5 weapon, +1 Haste, +2 Heroism, -2 Spell Combat), versus AC30, we have a hit rate for the primary attacks of 75%. Iteratives are at 50% and 25%.
Crit rate: 30% for a Keen Rapier
Confirmation rate: Equivalent to hit rate here
Crit bonus damage -1: 2-1=1When you run that out you get the individual attacks that I got. For a full attack, I considered the Spell Combat attacks (Normal, BAB-5, BAB-10), one Haste attack (Normal), one Spellstriked Shocking Grasp, and one Quickened Spellstriked Shocking Grasp.
Adding Bane alters the damage to 10.5+8+7=25.5 (+9 damage) and the to-hit jumps to 85%/60%/35% due to the extra +2 on the weapon.
The latter is the most significant change; pumping accuracy is a big deal since, more the damage, it's Magus accuracy that stalls. Their accuracy booster is the +weapon enhancement, which caps at a +5. What Bane does more than anything else is kick-start that again, without using their other accuracy boosters that involve the Quick Action (and thus no Quicken Spell).
Notably, the only things I considered were the weapons, Heroism, Haste, and Spell Combat. More feats or active spells could change things; if you have any feat, spell, etc., in particular you'd like to see Bane's impact on, I'll keep the spreadsheet for a while.
thanks i was using my goblin magus build and he have better to hit since he is both small and have goblin dex and weapon focus to get weapon spec and fencing grace. So the to hot is not as important since his 3 good attacks all hit on 2+ but his damage went from 240 to 295 with bane. With out crits. I use empowered frostbite but i dont up to hit for fatigue and entangled. I still think that the extra attack or sustainabillity from a recalled empowered(and rimed or elementl) frostbite is better on a long work Day but on days with 3-5 battles i guess bane is nicer than i used to belive.
Edit: how do you calculatet for the extra chance for connecting with shocking grasp if you miss with the free attack? And how do you get Spell strike damage that high shouldent it be somthing close to 0,75x(3,5x10)x1,5x1,3 +the normal expected weapon damage? Assuming that all threats are hits. Or is the increases damage because you calculatet in that there is a extra chance to connect the Spell on a later attack, if you miss?
That's really the key pair of questions; how long is the work day and how big are your draws on the arcane pool?
Bane Blade does double the draw on your arcane pool for weapon enhancements. But at level 15, you should probably have something like fourteen arcane pool points minimum, which should last through the majority of work days. If your campaign regularly goes to 7+ daily encounters, or you spam Arcane Accuracy/Accurate Strikes a lot, it's less useful of course.
That said, 240 to 295 is a 22% damage boost. That's a pretty big deal.
To handle the edit: that is the problem in handling dpr this way; it doesn't compensate for that. Knowing it requires working out your pattern of attacks/spells, which is going to vary-- and even vary based on whether or not you hit. It would be smart to lead Quickened with most setups, so if you miss with that Quickened shot you use your Spell Combat attack last, giving you four extra chances to deliver. However, that instance then creates the possibility to miss with the second Spellstrike and push that damage back to next round.
The simplest method would be to assume that the spell will be successfully delivered, so handle a 'miss' on Spellstrike would mean losing a normal attack and you'd change a normal attack to a Spellstrike. However, that's still... not very simple to run the numbers on.
The truly accurate method would require plotting a map of each attack pattern based on misses and run a weighted average of the results. That's... frankly way more work than I care about. This is close enough for my tastes. If you want to put the work in... go for it, I suppose.
my calculations usually dosent include crits but i try to look at expectet over kill and things like that. I also use the Spell recall ability quite a lot. Thanks for taking the time to explain. And you could just make the Spell part of the first Spellstrike a sure hit. That would be pretty accurate.
Stuff...
We'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm going by what's actually written. You're the one who's decided that abilities that you get for picking a class, that other classes don't get, are somehow not class features. Not sure how that makes sense even to you, much less anyone else.
Stuff...We'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm going by what's actually written. You're the one who's decided that abilities that you get for picking a class, that other classes don't get, are somehow not class features. Not sure how that makes sense even to you, much less anyone else.
how do you get the Spell memorised when you have made the UMD chek? Or is it enoug to emulate spontanious Spell casting, so every body get free spells all Day long with a ring of spell knowledge and a UMD DC 20?