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Gunslingers are regarded with a healthy dosage of fear and respect, spewing fire and noise from their metal cans. But there is another breed of warrior—a breed with hands as quick as a speeding bullet. Some fling knives, others draw from enormous stacks of shortspears that nearly break their backs with every step. No matter the weapon, it will sail fast as lightning when thrown by a knifeslinger.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Knifeslingers are proficient with all simple weapons, as well as shurikens, bolas, tridents, starknives, and light hammers. They are proficient with all light armor.
Grit (Ex): A knifeslinger regains grit when she scores a critical hit or deals a killing blow with any kind of thrown weapon. This ability modifies the grit class feature. In addition, she gains a third method:
Quick Grit: Whenever a knifeslinger wins Initiative, beating friend and foe alike, she gains one special grit point. If this point is not spent during her turn, it is lost.
Quick Draw (Ex): A knifeslinger gains Quick Draw as a bonus feat at first level. This ability replaces Gunsmith.
Strong Arm (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a knifeslingers's range with any thrown weapon increases by 10 feet.
Every 4 levels thereafter, the range increases by 10 more feet.
Deeds: A knifeslinger can perform the following deeds with a thrown weapon instead of a firearm: dead shot, targeting, bleeding wound, and death's shot. The knifeslinger swaps the following deeds.
Instant Response (Ex): At 1st level, as long as a knifeslinger has at least 1 grit point, she may add her level to Initiative checks. Furthermore, if her hands are free and unrestrained and the weapon is within reach, she can draw a single thrown weapon as part of the initiative check. This deed replaces Gunslinger Initiative.
Sharp Shoot (Ex): At 1st level, a knifeslinger can resolve an attack against touch AC instead of normal AC when throwing a weapon at a target within its first or second range increment. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This deed replaces deadeye.
Vigilant Loading (Ex): At 1st level, as long as a knifeslinger has at least 1 grit point, she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when throwing a weapon in melee. If she is targeting an enemy adjacent to her, she does not count herself when determining whether or not she is shooting into melee. This deed replaces quick clear.
Shooter's Resolve (Ex): At 3rd level, a bolt ace can spend 1 grit point when making attacks with thrown weapons to ignore soft cover. This deed replaces utility shot.
Always Armed (Ex): At 5th level, as long as an object to throw is adjacent to her, but not on the floor (i.e. on a table or chair), she may retrieve it as a free action as if using Quick Draw.
Distracting Shot (Ex): At 7th level, a knifeslinger can spend 1 grit point and choose to miss a target that she could normally attack with a thrown weapon attack. When she does, the target loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for 1 round. This deed replaces startling shot.
Always Ready (Ex): At 11th level, a knifeslinger may spend 1 grit point to act in a surprise round. This deed replaces expert loading.
Lightning Retrieve (Ex): At 11th level, a knifeslinger's thrown weapon is never destroyed or lost by being used. As long as she has at least 1 grit point, a knifeslinger may retrieve any thrown weapons, even if they are on the ground, as a non-action that can be done as part of a movement. Doing this does not provoke an attack of opportunity, though the movement might. This deed replaces lightning reload.
Bloody Disarm (Ex): At 15th level, the knifeslinger can spend 1 grit point while throwing a weapon and attempt to disarm an enemy. If the attack hits, the knifeslinger does not roll damage: Instead, it deals the minimum possible damage. If the attack roll surpasses the target's CMD and they are wielding a weapon one-handed, they are automatically disarmed. If they are wielding the object two-handed, the attack is pitted against their CMD +4. This deed replaces menacing shot.
I Already Threw It (Ex): At 19th level, the knifeslinger can spend 1 grit point to throw a weapon as an immediate action outside her own turn. She need not already have a weapon drawn to use this ability—she need only have a weapon available to her. This attack is made at her full base attack bonus, and her target is considered flat-footed against it. The knifeslinger may use this deed twice per round, but if she uses it a second time, the attack is made at her base attack bonus -5. If she is not in a position to make a full attack (such as by being tied up), this deed cannot be used. She must either full attack or take only a move action on her next turn, and what attacks she does make with this ability subtract from those she will be able to make on her full attack. This deed replaces stunning shot.
Throw Anything (Ex): A knifeslinger gains Throw Anything as a bonus feat at second level.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a knifeslinger gains the ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, even if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A knifeslinger with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her. This ability delays Nimble, which instead begins advancing at 6th level.
Thrown Weapons Training (Ex): At 5th level, the knifeslinger may select one type of thrown weapon, such as spear or dagger, or improvised weapons. She gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with all weapons of this type. This ability replaces gun training.
Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), a knifeslinger becomes further trained in another type of weapon. She gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using this weapon. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each. For example, when a knifeslinger reaches 9th level, she receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one weapon and a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the weapon selected at 5th level.
Very nice! Surprised this isn't an archetype - Rogue, Slayer, or Gunslinger - already.
I like it! And I have a player who has been playing a Rogue who wields a brace of daggers. This may be a nice alternative for him.
Looks like a interesting alternative to the flying blade. But i do t know if the damage is gonna be good enough.
The basic goals of this build: Address thrown weapons' inherently expensive nature and make up for a more MAD fighting style, since this class needs Strength as well as Dexterity. A big focus of the knifeslinger is acting first.
Incidentally, I considered granting Rapid Shot as a bonus feat, as well as giving some Sneak Attack. Those would both possibly help to some degree with the knifeslinger's damage drawbacks.
The Flying Blade archetype is nice. One big problem I have with it (as well as with the swashbuckler in general) is the somewhat pointless weapon limitation. They also don't get Quick Draw as a bonus feat, which is kinda insanely stupid, all things considered.
The Flying Blade archetype is nice. One big problem I have with it (as well as with the swashbuckler in general) is the somewhat pointless weapon limitation. They also don't get Quick Draw as a bonus feat, which is kinda insanely stupid, all things considered.
yes compared to somthing like a musket Master they seem like slow starters.
I always found the lack of support for thrown weapon experts unfortunate, so I'm very interested in this. Your knifeslinger is certainly stronger thant the flying blade from the ACG, but that is probably okay.
A few observations:
- Quick Grit does not pass the bag of rats test. If you want to put the focus on acting first, maybe introduce a damage option for surprise attacks?
- Vigilant Loading probably shouldn't come that early.
- Deeds: Dead shot is probably not worth it (since the base damage die of thrown weapons is too small) and bleeding wound shouldn't work with bludgeoning weapons.
- Always Armed: The quick draw reference is confusing and unnecessary.
- Lightning Retrieve: You should clarify what "as part of a movement" means.
- Bloody Disarm: At this point, the expenditure of grit should allow for a free disarm maneuver on top of a regular attack. Dirty Trick might work as well.
- I Already Threw It: The mechanics are unnecessarily complicated. I would delete everything after the third sentence.
Your knifeslinger makes a thrown weapon master more easy to play, which is a good thing. The damage output will still be relatively low compared to other ranged builds (though at higher level, the two-weapon fighting feat chain allows for a higher rate of fire) and the knifeslinger remains dependant to certain magical items (blinkback belt), but that is to be expected.
I agree with Amanuensis. The premise is nice, but this needs another draft. Many of the deeds have major mechanical problems. There's no such term as "winning initiative" in the game. How do you do I Already Threw It twice per round? It's an immediate action. I'm also not fond of giving them free attacks during initiative as a 1st level ability.
On a completely unrelated note, my favorite house rule to fixing thrown weapon builds involves introducing a magic item that works like amulet of mighty fists except it applies to all weapons thrown.
Thank you both for your examinations. It's a work in progress (I generally write these as I post them, so they tend to have problems). I'll go over the issues later and try to fix them, but one question—what's the "free attacks during initiative" ability you refer to, Cyrad? Is it the ability to fire in melee?
I'll probably move Vigilant Loading ahead (and fix the deed name), but the reasoning in putting it so early was that a knifeslinger is much more likely to get caught in melee, willingly or not, than a bolt ace or ordinary gunslinger. They have a worse range and a better Strength score.
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I have a question for you. Is there a particular reason you are basing this on the gunslinger? I ask because I made a very effective thrown weapon character with a slightly different theme using the Talented Monk from rogue genius games.
Basically, the talented monk lets you pick a weapon group (including thrown weapons) to get the expanding damage, flurry and full bab with. It even has rules to combine it with the talented rogue (including the ninja) so it could be charisma based for ki, wear light armor, have good skills, and flurry with thrown weapons that all scale in damage as if they were the normal monks unarmed strike (note the only limitation is you cant combine both the offensive options of the monk and the rogue, so no sneak attack and flurry).
Not saying this is a bad idea. Was just wondering if maybe that might be a better base to make a thrown weapon master.
In developing archetypes for the new supplement for the Pure Steam Campaign Setting, "Westbound" (now on Kickstarter), I too developed a knife-slinging gunslinger archetype, also inspired primarily by the character from the Magnificent Seven (in fighting style, anyhow).
Feel free to adopt elements of the Gaucho archetype for your own.
They're gunslingers mainly because I want them to have grit. :P
One thing that disappointed me with what you have here is that it doesn't address the fundamental problem with throwing builds: Mandatory Blinkback Belt or you need as many +X expensive magic daggers as you have attacks. Perhaps in place of Thrown Weapon Training a mechanic to that applies the enhancement and magic item abilities of the first weapon thrown to the others that follow it, with the flavor being that the blades are coming so fast that they almost blend together. That way only one pricey weapon would be needed and the rest can just be whatever. If a limit is needed you could make it so only a number of attacks per round can benefit from this effect and have that number scale as per the weapon training you currently have, but also have a grit use to apply it to all attacks for a round.
I like that idea! I'll definitely keep it in mind when I write up Knifeslinger 2.0.
One thing that disappointed me with what you have here is that it doesn't address the fundamental problem with throwing builds: Mandatory Blinkback Belt or you need as many +X expensive magic daggers as you have attacks. Perhaps in place of Thrown Weapon Training a mechanic to that applies the enhancement and magic item abilities of the first weapon thrown to the others that follow it, with the flavor being that the blades are coming so fast that they almost blend together. That way only one pricey weapon would be needed and the rest can just be whatever. If a limit is needed you could make it so only a number of attacks per round can benefit from this effect and have that number scale as per the weapon training you currently have, but also have a grit use to apply it to all attacks for a round.
Another option might be to have an enhancement pool similar to the magus but one that applies to every weapon you throw?
Its one of the reasons I dont think a gunslinger archetype is the way to go. In order to account for the needs of the thrown weapon master, you probably need a bit more design space then one for one trades with the gunslinger.
I'm reading Richard K. Morgan's The Dark Defiles and the character that uses throwing knives has attuned them so she can call them back to her after she throws them. Maybe allow the knifeslinger to attune herself to a number of thrown weapons equal to her Charisma (or Wisdom or Dexterity) modifier and grant them the Returning magical weapon quality?
I can almost see the knifeslinger as a quasi-psionic class that uses telekinesis to guide and/or retrieve her throwing weapons.
Had a brainwave on a way to make the knifeslinger cost-effective without giving him required Supernatural abilities (which I'd like to avoid if at all possible). What if the knifeslinger gains a "split" ability that gets better as she levels up?
So, at third level (for instance), the slinger can split any throwing weapons they possess into quarters. This renders them much less powerful in melee (Fragile quality and two steps less damage, perhaps), but does not affect their ranged capabilities at all. It may even boost the range. More importantly, the split weapons maintain the exact same magical benefits, and can be enchanted as if they were one weapon. Any non-slinger is considered nonproficient with these shards.
At higher levels, the slinger can eighth the weapon, then sixteenth. The shards can be specially enchanted individually for lesser, cheaper benefits (for instance, Flaming, if enchanted for only one "segment", deals only 1d3-1d4 fire damage but costs very little).
Advantages: The slinger can get numerous weapons at a great discount, offering some real versatility.
Disadvantages: This still doesn't totally eliminate the basic drawback, and I can't see why the slinger wouldn't grab returning anyways. Even split, the weapons cost way more than enchanted arrows or bolts.
On a sidenote, I had an offhand idea for another grit ability: "Splinter". Basically, the slinger can choose to cause the weapon to stick in the target, causing some mild inconvenience. If the enemy is ever adjacent to the slinger, the slinger can draw their weapon back out of the enemy as a free or swift action.
Maybe grant the knife-slinger a "Share Enchantment" ability that lets her keep a magical throwing weapon on her person, and her thrown weapons gain the magical abilities of the throwing weapon for 1 round when she throws them?
And maybe the knife-slinger can have a number of magic knives equal to her Int/Wis/Cha mod/Grit?