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[Backstory: I played my first PFS game, and had fun. But I didn't really like my character. After getting some advice on here, I've decided to switch to a Paladin for my next session. This character is LARGELY based upon the advice I got from Fruian Thistlefoot). I was playing a character belonging to the Dark Archives. Characters who belong to this faction got some pretty neat little bonuses at the end of the adventure. I was told that, if I rework the character, and chose a different faction, I would lose these bonuses. Anyway, onto my inquiry]
When I read the description of the Dark Archives, I could see how a Paladin could thematically belong to this guild. (Greater Good angle: better that we have these artifacts under lock and key than have them fall into the wrong hands, ect.).
Then I read some more.
Paladins can Detect Evil at will. Paracountess Zarta Dralneen is Lawful Evil. I can't see any way a Paladin would join an order where the leader was Evil.
I brought this up to my GM. He said there's no RAW against it, but he sees my point. He also thinks Ms Draleen probably wears magical items that mask her true alignment. This makes sense to me.
Do you think Paladins can belong to this order? The way PFS is, I'd hate to make a character in one group, and then have a different GM tell me it isn't allowed.
Thank you for your opinions, I look forward to reading them.
Also: are there rules in play for leaving a faction?
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I could see a Dark Archive Paladin. And once this season, you can change your faction for free.
That said, I wouldn't recommend it. You count as Cheliax for the old Season 1-5 adventures. And Cheliax plots are usually cackling evil.
*ahem*
I vividly remember all of my Andoran friends doing evil things such as killing people, extorting people, and scoping out whorehouses to make sure the madame wasn't going to supply less than stellar entertainment for a andoran general or something for faction missions. Meanwhile my Cheliax character was collecting random baubles and delivering letters for faction missions.|
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[Backstory: I played my first PFS game, and had fun. But I didn't really like my character. After getting some advice on here, I've decided to switch to a Paladin for my next session. This character is LARGELY based upon the advice I got from Fruian Thistlefoot). I was playing a character belonging to the Dark Archives. Characters who belong to this faction got some pretty neat little bonuses at the end of the adventure. I was told that, if I rework the character, and chose a different faction, I would lose these bonuses. Anyway, onto my inquiry]
When I read the description of the Dark Archives, I could see how a Paladin could thematically belong to this guild. (Greater Good angle: better that we have these artifacts under lock and key than have them fall into the wrong hands, ect.).
Then I read some more.
Paladins can Detect Evil at will. Paracountess Zarta Dralneen is Lawful Evil. I can't see any way a Paladin would join an order where the leader was Evil.
I brought this up to my GM. He said there's no RAW against it, but he sees my point. He also thinks Ms Draleen probably wears magical items that mask her true alignment. This makes sense to me.
Do you think Paladins can belong to this order? The way PFS is, I'd hate to make a character in one group, and then have a different GM tell me it isn't allowed.
Thank you for your opinions, I look forward to reading them.
Also: are there rules in play for leaving a faction?
Technically, you need to spend a move action to detect evil on a single person. You could just not spend that move action around the paracountess and you'll never know. (I'm not sure if it's considered rude or not, also.)
I've heard one character announce they were joining the Dark Archive because "someone has to keep an eye on that Dralneen woman". You could always play that angle.
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What deity your paladin ends up worshiping could also impact how appropriate the Dark Archive is for him/her. The paladin code for Shelyn in Inner Sea Gods explicitly calls for the protection of works of art, and I'm sure at least some of the Archive's contents qualify. Sarenrae places redemption and forgiveness high on her list of priorities, while an Abadaran might make a connection between the Archive and their god's First Vault. Paladins of Iomedae or Erastil would probably be a tougher fit. If you open up the broader range of deities (Empyreal lords and such), you'll find plenty that would probably make good fits, and plenty that would be much less so.
The other good news is that in Season 0-4 scenarios, there's absolutely no penalty for failing to complete any mission your character finds distateful. Even in Season 5/6, failing to do so only means you don't get a (generally minor) boon, though you may then also be denying any other faction members at your table the same opportunity.
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Not only are Paladins playable in the Dark Archive faction, Paladins can totally take the Hellknight Prestige Class. Yes, without falling. And still while staying loyal to Cheliax/The Hellknights.
I don't have a paladin in the Dark Archive faction, but I do have a Lawful Good Sentinel of Sheyln serving Zarta. Why? Because that character was originally a member of the Lanter Lodge. A character from Tien-Xia who had a schtick of constantly misunderstanding "strange gaijin ways" of the Inner Sea.
It made perfect sense that character would be easy prey for recruitment by someone like Zarta into the Cheliax faction. My explanation for a LG templar serving a good god in the Cheliax faction was that it's better for Cheliax to run the Inner Sea than to let anarchy and mayhem reign. Worship of Asmodeus may be harsh, but life would be Fair. And besides, adding Sheyln's tempering influence would make domination by Cheliax far less odious for those unwise enough to see that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
It takes far less philosophical gymnastics to justify LG in the Dark Archive: If this stuff is going to be used and studied, people like me need to be involved to provide moral supervision!
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Andoran missions are more commonly problematic, and those are the ones Silver Crusade maps to in Season 0-2.
+1 to that. Because of the antics Andorans were put up to in the early seaons, 'round these parts they're still called "terrorists" and were considered the more evil faction than Cheliax was.
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I could see a Dark Archive Paladin. And once this season, you can change your faction for free.
That said, I wouldn't recommend it. You count as Cheliax for the old Season 1-5 adventures. And Cheliax plots are usually cackling evil. I ran into this with my Shaman. Dark Archive, discovering and protecting arcane secrets sounded cool. But most of my sessions have been older season adventures, and a couple have had Cheliax faction missions and/or faction special options. I've been thinking of switching to Osirion/Scarab sages to run old seasons without Cheliax.
You actually don't have to do the old Cheliax faction missions anymore for the extra 1 prestige. There's a document that lays out all the secondary objectives for old scenarios now, which will award you the 2nd prestige point.
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Actually, having GMed my fair share of Andorans, I'd say that it's not so much "put up to", as they were in some cases, but it was my experience that Andorans tended to use tactics of backstabbing and murder even when they weren't told to, and there were other means available, even non-violent ones. Just face it... Andoran PC's ARE a bunch of murderous thugs who claim "it's in the name of freedom!".Andoran missions are more commonly problematic, and those are the ones Silver Crusade maps to in Season 0-2.+1 to that. Because of the antics Andorans were put up to in the early seaons, 'round these parts they're still called "terrorists" and were considered the more evil faction than Cheliax was.
You know, I spent a lot of time and effort getting my fellows, as well as those of other factions, to find ways that were not so ... murderous as some seemed to use. I'd like you to amend that capitalized word to something less ... all-encompassing. Some of us are trained diplomats, after all.
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I actually had the Paracountess personally invite a paladin to the Dark Archive when I GM'ed Paths We Choose for him. He had proven himself well in that part of the scenario, and she figured he'd be useful.
Sold it to him on the fact that it was better for everyone if the Pathfinders were keeping all the dangerous stuff safe and under control.
He accepted it and enjoys pointing out to other characters that he got the invite. He plays it well.
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Man, this thread makes me want to build a LG Cleric of Abadar whose business is selling atonements to DArchive Paladins...
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Man, this thread makes me want to build a LG Cleric of Abadar whose business is selling atonements to DArchive Paladins...
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good.
Well it is worth remembering, that the deities each have their own paladin codes, and that in PFS characters are already supposed to work with characters who can offend their moral code.
Those Paladin+Necromancer groups are going to happen, and while Zarta is officially evil, as a pathfinder you are working for a shadowy cabal of anonymous people with sometimes questionable motives.And frankly, reading a couple of faction missions (I started playing at the start of Season 6) some are pretty... stupid and feel quite forced. And of course you don't actually have to do that, if faction missions had been still a thing by the time my Silver Crussade member had the chance to play The Dissapeared... no not doing that faction mission, especially since I am pretty sure that I found that picture several years ago on deviantart...
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Id also point out that not all Paladins have the Iomedaen view on attack first talk later.
Id actually pick a God which isnt so confrontational as the Deity for my Paladin. Then mold the personalty round that if you think it might be hard to work for the Dark Archive.
An interesting choice might be :
Kelinahat
She of Ebon Wings
Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 322 (Amazon)
Pathfinder Wiki Kelinahat
Details
Alignment LG
Pantheon Empyreal Lords
Areas of Concern Intelligence, spies, stealth
Domains Darkness, Good, Knowledge, Law
Favored Weapon Short sword
With the LG Alignment she is sure to have holy warriors but note her Areas of Concern. She is interested in Intelligence.. which for the Pathfinder Society is a BIG thing. Finding out what artifacts do etc. The Stealth and Spies aspect is an interesting part of the Faith. When we think of Paladins we think of the bright and shiny Paladins of Sarenrae and co.
Another interesting choice might be :
Zohls
Verity
Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 324 (Amazon)
Pathfinder Wiki Zohls
Details
Alignment LG
Pantheon Empyreal Lords
Areas of Concern Determination, investigation, truth
Domains Good, Knowledge, Law, Travel
Favored Weapon Heavy crossbow
Not a god I have ever seen used before, but his Areas of Concern are a very interesting mix and a Paladin of Zohls could be interesting esp as I view them as a type always sticking their nose into other peoples business.
Just remember the Dark Archive is separate from Cheliax now.
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I played my Lawful Good member of the Dark Archive tonight and even succeeded in her faction mission. She's a Cavalier/Hunter not a Paladin. Good and Lawful people bound to oaths of service to less than Good people is a trope in fiction. Be prepared for the possibility of deciding to fail some faction missions and/or paying for the occasional atonement. That said, service to the Paracountess can be rewarding on a number of levels.
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I play a NG Cleric of Sarenrae in PFS.
Why wouldn't a cleric of a god a redemption work in a faction that has so many to be redeemed? Wouldn't they also be interested in containing dangerous artifacts? Heck, Sarenrae herself tries to be on good terms with all the other gods except that one trying to destroy the universe. She might not trust Asmodeus, but leaves that door open.
I have to say some of the season 6 faction missions were certainly of concern, but if you have some of the social skills (Diplomacy, Sense Motive, etc.) there are usually "good" way to accomplish them.
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Paladins are specifrically exempted from any repercussions of violating their alignments if they do so in support of a faction mission.I think we need a source for that... it would apply to Clerics and others also, so very relevant.
Paladins were explicitly NOT exempt from that. Alignment shifts are covered, not sure about code violations.
I don't know if thats still in effect with the semi absence of faction missions.
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Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good.
Emphasis mine.
Currently, the Dark Archive works to collect, catalogue, and contain dangerous relics and artifacts the Society comes across in their operations. This is to avoid accidents and mishaps that can result in tragedy. We're looking at you, Blakros Museum. That definitely falls under "greater good". When an ancient magical weapon is loose that could wipe out a town/city/plane of existence, you don't suddenly get picky about who helps you get it under wraps as long as their methods aren't evil (even if they are).
Does this mean the Paladin will do everything Zarta asks? No. Especially not when they find it to be in conflict with their code of conduct. Do they need to get atonements? YMMV.
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Also, giving it thought: A lot of this comes down to role-play. WHY is the Paladin there? You could easily make a case that Hellknight of the Godclaw was there to make sure this stuff (and the people working on it) stayed under control. Similar cases for Paladins of the Empyreal Lords noted in previous posts.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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Zohls
Verity
Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 324 (Amazon)
Pathfinder Wiki Zohls
Details
Alignment LG
Pantheon Empyreal Lords
Areas of Concern Determination, investigation, truth
Domains Good, Knowledge, Law, Travel
Favored Weapon Heavy crossbowNot a god I have ever seen used before, but his Areas of Concern are a very interesting mix and a Paladin of Zohls could be interesting esp as I view them as a type always sticking their nose into other peoples business.
HER area of concern. Also, the only deity with Heavy Crossbow as favored weapon. I've got two charcters that follow her. One's my investigator modeled on Madame Vastra, and the other is my Samurai modeled on the Shinsengumi.
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And once this season, you can change your faction for free.
This only applies to characters who have been played before the start of season six. It's because of the changes in some factions.
And yes, I believe that a paladin in Dark Archives is viable. It is commonly known fact that Zarta Dralneen is evil and thus needs to be kept under keen observation.
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And once this season, you can change your faction for free.This only applies to characters who have been played before the start of season six. It's because of the changes in some factions.
And yes, I believe that a paladin in Dark Archives is viable. It is commonly known fact that Zarta Dralneen is evil and thus needs to be kept under keen observation.
I understand that the Calistrians keep her under close observation. Sometimes, you just need some... inspiration. ;)
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And once this season, you can change your faction for free.This only applies to characters who have been played before the start of season six. It's because of the changes in some factions.
And yes, I believe that a paladin in Dark Archives is viable. It is commonly known fact that Zarta Dralneen is evil and thus needs to be kept under keen observation.
The language in the Guide doesn't seem include any sort of limit on pre-existing characters or not. My understanding was that even characters created at/after Gencon can make the switch, because we've all been learning a bit more about how each faction's goals and motivations work in practice over the course of the season.
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I'm currently playing a paladin of Shelyn in the Core side of the campaign. Backstory reasoning is that as a 4th daughter of an Egorian family, she had few prospects for a beneficial marriage, especially given her 'tendencies' toward art & such.
Plus, those folks in the Archives need some oversight.
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Who would be a better choice for containing dangerous evil artifacts than an incorruptible holy warrior? I don't have one yet but I absolutely intend to make a Dark Archive paladin.
Oh? That. Yes. All part of the ceremony. Its tradition you know. We know how highly you value that. Now try not to sneeze when we get to the pepper grinder.