Quarterstaff; am I missing something?

[dkeller]

So i'm not sure if maybe i'm just misunderstanding the rules but what is the point of the Quarterstaff?

Is it worth using over other 2 handed weapons that do way more damage and why?

I was looking at the different magus archetypes and the idea of a staff wielding light armor magus, perhaps with some lore warden multiclassing for flavor and CMB reallly appeals to me.

The only thing is there are things that do way more damage than a measely 1d6.

I mean you do get to add 1/2 times your strength modifier wielding 2 handed but that's not that big when you're talking about the build I'm thinking because I was hoping to balance strength and dex a little because of my lower AC with only light armor prof. with a staff magus.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding double weapons? My understanding was you need to take 2 weapon fighting to remove the huge penalty for doing an extra attack with a double weapon; that's the case right?

Thanks!

[Issac Daneil]

Yes, you do need to take TWF.

The important thing to remember is that the Quarterstaff is more Iconic then Functional, where as Greatsword, and Rapier for example are Iconic AND Functional.

The quarterstaff is a simple weapon, and costs nothing, and no class in the game CANNOT use it with proficiency. If everyone in the world could use a weapon, it can't be a very elite or superior weapon, because all other weapons would have been abandoned

That being said, the Staff Magus gets to turn their Quarterstaff/Staff into a magic weapon, AND a magic staff, which can be advantageous. They get to play the Warrior-Wizard, relying on the stick and spells alone, whereas most Magi are armored light warriors, who also use magic. There's less of a focus on MAGE-WARRIOR, and instead on warrior-MAGE.

[Just a Guess]

The quarterstaff is:
- free (no cost)
- is a good alternative for fighting with two weapons
- Can be switched between two-handed and two-weapon fighting
- has a certain style some might like

The feat a staff magus gets allows to:
- Use a quarterstaff one-handed
- Learn weapon specialization (quarterstaff)

The staff magus also gets:
- to treat magic staffs (like a staff of fire) as magic quarterstaffs

In all the magus has a weapon which he can use one-handed, two-handed, for two-weapon fighting. That way he can use for spell combat and still have a two-handed weapon for when he doesn't use spell combat.

[blackbloodtroll]

It's a simple weapon.

What are you expectations?

Not all weapon are created equal.

Quarterstaff serves many purposes though.

[pipedreamsam]

Shillelagh.

[Imbicatus]

Flurry of Shillelagh is very nice. It's also the only non-exotic double weapon. Quarterstaff Master lets non-fighters specialize in one. Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents.

[blackbloodtroll]

Imbicatus wrote:

Flurry of Shillelagh is very nice. It's also the only non-exotic double weapon. Quarterstaff Master lets non-fighters specialize in one. Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents.

I always wonder how best to utilize that particular item.

Magus? Brawler?

[Imbicatus]

I'd say Brawler or Weapon Adept monk. Maybe a warpriest of nethys.

[Just a Guess]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Flurry of Shillelagh is very nice. It's also the only non-exotic double weapon. Quarterstaff Master lets non-fighters specialize in one. Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents.

I always wonder how best to utilize that particular item.

Magus? Brawler?

It is good for a lot of builds.

- As backup for arm or anvil who doesn't invest in damage dealing
- Any caster without eschew materials
- staff magus
- cleric of nethys

About every non hammer class can get some uses out of it. 2d4+2 force damage auto-hit is not the best thing since sliced bread but surely better than relying on cantrips to conserve spells. And it deals full damage to incorporeals.

Only one side of the quarterstaff seems to be magic but monks and brawlers don't care about that. And they get the same strength mod for wielding it one-handed or two-handed so a monk or brawler with the quarterstaff master might get something out of it.

[dkeller]

Thanks everyone, the responses have been really helpful when thinking about the character concept I'm hashing out in my head. A few questions from everyone's responses:

1. The Shilleglah spell looks like a level 1 druid spell; if I were to play a staff magus is there a way to get this on my spell list without multiclassing druid? Is multi-classing druid with a magus a viable option?

2. So as a Staff Magus, I can wield a magical staff basically as a quarterstaff? So how does casting the staff spell work in conjunction with my spell casting feat and the magus in general?

3. This question kind of goes with my build: so lets say I take the trait hierloom weapon (my character's backstory is that this weapon has been passed on down for generations) for a staff; it sounds like with the staff magus (with the enhancement bonuses later in levels) I could legitimately keep using that weapon throughout the game without it being over shadowed by powerful magical items?

4. Kind of in line with question three, lets say I do that; could I make that staff a "magical staff" with charges of some spell? Is that something i can do myself or pay someone to do in the game?

Thanks!

[Metal Sonic]

3. Use Masterwork Transformation in your Heirloom Weapon, and Enchant it later.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/masterworkTransform ation.html

[LazarX]

dkeller wrote:

Thanks everyone, the responses have been really helpful when thinking about the character concept I'm hashing out in my head. A few questions from everyone's responses:

1. The Shilleglah spell looks like a level 1 druid spell; if I were to play a staff magus is there a way to get this on my spell list without multiclassing druid? Is multi-classing druid with a magus a viable option?

2. So as a Staff Magus, I can wield a magical staff basically as a quarterstaff? So how does casting the staff spell work in conjunction with my spell casting feat and the magus in general?

3. This question kind of goes with my build: so lets say I take the trait hierloom weapon (my character's backstory is that this weapon has been passed on down for generations) for a staff; it sounds like with the staff magus (with the enhancement bonuses later in levels) I could legitimately keep using that weapon throughout the game without it being over shadowed by powerful magical items?

4. Kind of in line with question three, lets say I do that; could I make that staff a "magical staff" with charges of some spell? Is that something i can do myself or pay someone to do in the game?

Thanks!

1. No.... Not worth it. Your damage is going to be comeing from spell combat, so no need to worry about the damage dice of the weapon itself. If you're looking to be the DPR king of the Magus world, you're in the wrong place.... However you can be the master of lockdowns if you work your b uild.

2. As a Staff Magus you use your free Quarterstaff Mastery feat to wield the staff in one hand. (Welcome to Big Baton School!)

3 and 4. You can stake the usual crafting feats... Or get an item crafter to unlock it's potential by enchanting it. Craft Arms and Armor to enchant as a weapon, and/or Craft Staff to give it staff properties. Remember that like other Magi, you've got your arcane pool to infuse it with power as well.

[TriOmegaZero]

Many of my non-combatant characters carry a quarterstaff simply to be armed, even if they never need to use it.

It provides a deterrent from a non-combat maneuver user trying to grapple your caster. You can provide a flank to an ally if close quarters force you up against the enemy. Even if you never swing it for anything other than a walking stick.

To conserve money in our CRB-only home game, my barbarian/ranger picked up a quarterstaff and club, preferring to spend his limited resources on armor. 1d6+6 works just fine at 1st/2nd level.

[Imbicatus]

Also, as a staff magus, you can spellstrike with both ends of the weapon. You can cast Frostbite/Chill touch to attack with one end, and then next round use two-weapon fighting to apply your touch spell on each attack.

[LazarX]

Issac Daneil wrote:

Yes, you do need to take TWF.

The important thing to remember is that the Quarterstaff is more Iconic then Functional, where as Greatsword, and Rapier for example are Iconic AND Functional.

The quarterstaff is a simple weapon, and costs nothing, and no class in the game CANNOT use it with proficiency. If everyone in the world could use a weapon, it can't be a very elite or superior weapon, because all other weapons would have been abandoned

That being said, the Staff Magus gets to turn their Quarterstaff/Staff into a magic weapon, AND a magic staff, which can be advantageous. They get to play the Warrior-Wizard, relying on the stick and spells alone, whereas most Magi are armored light warriors, who also use magic. There's less of a focus on MAGE-WARRIOR, and instead on warrior-MAGE.

You do not need to take TWF as a Staff Magus, in fact you shouldn't. You'll be wielding your staff with one hand, and keeping the other free for spell combat. Or just wield it two handed if you're not casting any spells that round.

[lemeres]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

It's a simple weapon.

What are you expectations?

Not all weapon are created equal.

Quarterstaff serves many purposes though.

Yeah...but daggers and cestus tho'. Daggers are the most versatile weapons, and cestus seems to allow you to wield other weapons (so you can grab a 1 handed sword, and fake having a double weapon).

Not to mention the long spear...but that is mostly just because reach is awesome in general.

The separation between martial and simple weapons is slight, and sometimes arbitrary (like how there are no simple slashing weapons that can be 2 handed; this is because slashing weapons tend to have better criticals, and it is better for DR than piercing, but not as essential as bludgeoning)

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I always wonder how best to utilize that particular item.

Magus? Brawler?

A slayer or ranger with a 2 level brawler dip, I would guess.

Brawler's Flurry works like TWF, and you can improve it with normal TWF feats (unlike the monk's flurry). You can flurry with a single weapon, and you can use a 2 handed weapon during this flurry. That means 2 handed power attack.

I suggest moving into slayer or ranger because they can get TWF feats without a high dex (this relies on strength a lot) and they get a lot more static damage on each hit. A brawler would be better off using a bayonet honestly (since it is a close weapon, and as such get that damage dice increase). Ranger has some advantage since it can get Shillelagh.

Brawler is rather nice as a dip for TWF users since it changes up how TWF works while meshing well with normal TWF methods. It can also do a nice sword and board without needing to shield bash, assuming you grab a nice monk weapon like a butterfly sword or 9-ringed sword (which are both martial weapons, and easy to access with multiclass).

[Joynt Jezebel]

Just a Guess wrote:

The quarterstaff is:

- free (no cost)
- is a good alternative for fighting with two weapons
- Can be switched between two-handed and two-weapon fighting
- has a certain style some might like

The feat a staff magus gets allows to:
- Use a quarterstaff one-handed
- Learn weapon specialization (quarterstaff)

The staff magus also gets:
- to treat magic staffs (like a staff of fire) as magic quarterstaffs

In all the magus has a weapon which he can use one-handed, two-handed, for two-weapon fighting. That way he can use for spell combat and still have a two-handed weapon for when he doesn't use spell combat.

All that from what is merely a quarter staff.

Imagine what you could do if you had the other 3/4 as well!!

[lemeres]

Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Just a Guess wrote:

The quarterstaff is:

- free (no cost)
- is a good alternative for fighting with two weapons
- Can be switched between two-handed and two-weapon fighting
- has a certain style some might like

The feat a staff magus gets allows to:
- Use a quarterstaff one-handed
- Learn weapon specialization (quarterstaff)

The staff magus also gets:
- to treat magic staffs (like a staff of fire) as magic quarterstaffs

In all the magus has a weapon which he can use one-handed, two-handed, for two-weapon fighting. That way he can use for spell combat and still have a two-handed weapon for when he doesn't use spell combat.

All that from what is merely a quarter staff.

Imagine what you could do if you had the other 3/4 as well!!

Yeah, but the only ones who are automatically proficient with that are wholelings (which are two halflings in a trench coat)

[Imbicatus]

With a buck and a quarter staff you can do this:

Ho! Ha ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!

[dkeller]

Thanks for the answers everyone, good stuff!

A few more thoughts/questions based on what everyone is saying:

1. I'm looking to make a magus that not only uses spell combat and focuses on delivering his spells through touch attacks but also one that does some combat manuevers, specifically trip well. Based on that, is there a way to get the Shillegah spell with a magus without taking druid levels?

2. Could I find an NPC to enchant my hierloom staff rather than having to take the feats myself or have someone in my party do so?

[Imbicatus]

dkeller wrote:

1. I'm looking to make a magus that not only uses spell combat and focuses on delivering his spells through touch attacks but also one that does some combat manuevers, specifically trip well. Based on that, is there a way to get the Shillegah spell with a magus without taking druid levels?

Not really. You can take a level of Magaambyan Arcanist to add it to your magus list, but I don't think it's worth it, especially as by the time you are able to add Shillegah to your list you would have a magic staff anyway.

[Matt2VK]

If you're looking to do combat maneuvers with a Magus the easiest way is -

Get yourself a Wand of True Strike
Pick up the Arcana: Wand use (allows wand use for spell combat)
CMB feat chain.

That +20 to any attack roll will allow almost any combat maneuver to happen.

One more advantage the quarterstaff has over a regular weapon is that you can bring your 'walking stick' almost anywhere. Even places where 'weapons' aren't allowed.

[Keep Calm and Carrion]

Shillelagh Oil is pretty cheap.

[Imbicatus]

Keep Calm and Carrion wrote:

Shillelagh Oil is pretty cheap.

As is a wand if you can make the UMD check.

[LazarX]

Matt2VK wrote:

One more advantage the quarterstaff has over a regular weapon is that you can bring your 'walking stick' almost anywhere. Even places where 'weapons' aren't allowed.

"Will you deprive an old man of his walking stick?"

[DominusMegadeus]

LazarX wrote:

Matt2VK wrote:

One more advantage the quarterstaff has over a regular weapon is that you can bring your 'walking stick' almost anywhere. Even places where 'weapons' aren't allowed.

"Will you deprive an old man of his walking stick?"

I always put a quiver of tiny walking sticks on my character sheet.

[lemeres]

DominusMegadeus wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Matt2VK wrote:

One more advantage the quarterstaff has over a regular weapon is that you can bring your 'walking stick' almost anywhere. Even places where 'weapons' aren't allowed.

"Will you deprive an old man of his walking stick?"

I always put a quiver of tiny walking sticks on my character sheet.

Well of course. There is a 50% chance of them breaking everytime you use them and they touch the ground.

[dkeller]

Matt2VK wrote:

If you're looking to do combat maneuvers with a Magus the easiest way is -

Get yourself a Wand of True Strike
Pick up the Arcana: Wand use (allows wand use for spell combat)
CMB feat chain.

That +20 to any attack roll will allow almost any combat maneuver to happen.

One more advantage the quarterstaff has over a regular weapon is that you can bring your 'walking stick' almost anywhere. Even places where 'weapons' aren't allowed.

I've read about that before; looks interesting. It seems like an exploit though of some sort though; is this kind of thing sanctioned in PFS games?

[Imbicatus]

dkeller wrote:

Matt2VK wrote:

If you're looking to do combat maneuvers with a Magus the easiest way is -

Get yourself a Wand of True Strike
Pick up the Arcana: Wand use (allows wand use for spell combat)
CMB feat chain.

That +20 to any attack roll will allow almost any combat maneuver to happen.

One more advantage the quarterstaff has over a regular weapon is that you can bring your 'walking stick' almost anywhere. Even places where 'weapons' aren't allowed.

I've read about that before; looks interesting. It seems like an exploit though of some sort though; is this kind of thing sanctioned in PFS games?

Yes, wand wielder is perfectly legal. It requires a magus arcana to pull off, and is an ongoing money sink.

[thejeff]

Imbicatus wrote:

dkeller wrote:

Matt2VK wrote:

If you're looking to do combat maneuvers with a Magus the easiest way is -

Get yourself a Wand of True Strike
Pick up the Arcana: Wand use (allows wand use for spell combat)
CMB feat chain.

That +20 to any attack roll will allow almost any combat maneuver to happen.

One more advantage the quarterstaff has over a regular weapon is that you can bring your 'walking stick' almost anywhere. Even places where 'weapons' aren't allowed.

I've read about that before; looks interesting. It seems like an exploit though of some sort though; is this kind of thing sanctioned in PFS games?

Yes, wand wielder is perfectly legal. It requires a magus arcana to pull off, and is an ongoing money sink.

And, if I'm reading it correctly, you can't pull off the true strike and a spellstrike at the same time. Good for maneuvers and occasionally otherwise, but overwhelming otherwise. You could use it with a held charge, I suppose? Action economy issues there.

[TriOmegaZero]

It's not spell strike, it's spell combat. (Which is TWF with your spell.) So you use it to cast True Strike with the wand and then attack with your weapon.

[thejeff]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

It's not spell strike, it's spell combat. (Which is TWF with your spell.) So you use it to cast True Strike with the wand and then attack with your weapon.

I know. I'm just saying you can't use it guarantee a hit spellstriking with Shocking Grasp or whatever. Without the aforementioned action economy problems.

[TriOmegaZero]

Well yeah, but the example was talking about getting almost assured combat maneuvers. +20 to the check is pretty nice, provided the target isn't outright immune.

[Taenia]

Best part of a staff magus. Standing in back of the party in a robe (covering your armor) and holding a stick. When the bad guys sneak up from behind he gets a big surprise.

[Joynt Jezebel]

lemeres wrote:

All that from what is merely a quarter staff.

Imagine what you could do if you had the other 3/4 as well!!

Yeah, but the only ones who are automatically proficient with that are wholelings (which are two halflings in a trench coat)

Lemeres, you are clearly a person after my own heart.

[JiCi]

Shillelagh doesn't work on magical staves and clubs... so you can't use it on a magic staff.