I will have a swashbuckler at my table soonish and I guess he will try to double dip dex damage by playing a Whirling Dervish archetype and combining it with slashing grace. I would need a rocksteady ruling please why this won´t work. Otherwise it will lead to endless discussion. Thanks in advance!
Both state that you can use DEX instead of STR for damage. They are a straight up replacement and not an addition.
A normal attack allows STR to be added to damage. Once you add Whirling Dervish or Slashing Grace, that quality is removed. You are no longer adding STR to damage. The second attempt at adding DEX to damage no longer has the qualifying quality (STR to damage) to make it work.
That's a bit of a muddled explanation, but I hope it helps.
"instead of" means "in place of". You can use your dex in place of you strength.
If I give you the option of having apples "instead of/in place of" oranges you are still limited in your total amount of apples; no matter how many times I give you the option. It doesn't insinuate that if you choose apples you can have an unlimited amount of apples because you didn't have an orange.
Just because two feats give you the option of using dex rather then str doesn't increase your dex bonus. Giving you the option to replace str w/ dex twice doesn't mean you can stack them any more then you could trade a orange for two apples in the same meal, just because I gave you the option to replace the choice twice.
The term "instead of" doesn't insinuate giving multiple choices or applications; no matter how many times it is stated.
Thanks a lot. With those two reasons I think I can nail that coffin shut!
I'm just going to say this individual sounds like a problem player if he would earnestly attempt such shenanigans.
Anyways, Imbicatus gave you the official FAQ that makes it completely clear it can't work. The other part is you can't replace strength twice and get to damage twice, because you only get strength once in the first place.
Ah, but then you use Incredible Feat*, which allows you to swap your Dexterity for Strength! Next, you say "Hastur" three times in a row...
*Disclaimer: Feat may or may not actually exist.
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I'm just going to say this individual sounds like a problem player if he would earnestly attempt such shenanigans.
Not every attempt, that is not specifically designed to weaken, and devalue one's ability to contribute, should be considered "shenanigans".
This player is not even playing a full caster of any kind.
You jump to conclusions, without real evidence, or merit.
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That fact that the GM is premptively trying to get a ruling to block things is an indicator to me about the player. I could be wrong, but situations like this make me think certain things.
If I am wrong, so be it. All the better.
to stack 2 Dex to Damage Effects, one of them has to replace strength, and the other has to be in addition to strength, for Example, Furie's Fall and Agile manuevers do this trick for trip manuevers, and only trip manuevers, because it was balanced around extremely agile characters getting huge trip bonuses and around the fact that nowhere near as many creatures can truly be tripped.
both bonuses are untyped and come from different sources, even if they are from dexterity. in fact, i didn't know that it was a houserule that i have been allowing fury's fall and agile manuevers to stack all along, or even the prophetic armor revelation plus divine grace. i didn't see it as a problem as long as one was in addition to and the other in place of. but i limit it to no more than 2 attributes or double one attribute contributing to one roll type. meaning, if you want double dex to trip, you have to give up strength to trip.
both bonuses are untyped and come from different sources, even if they are from dexterity.
That is where they confusion arises. According to the FAQ, dexterity is considered the source of both bonuses, and since they are both untyped, they don't stack.
both bonuses are untyped and come from different sources, even if they are from dexterity.That is where they confusion arises. According to the FAQ, dexterity is considered the source of both bonuses, and since they are both untyped, they don't stack.
untyped bonuses stack with other untyped bonuses unless otherwise stated in the text of both abilities that are attempted to stack.
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A single Bonus, can have simultaneous multiple sources, depending on the type of bonus it provides.
The FAQ basically creates a new multisource, and "typed" untyped bonus rule, that wasn't there before, but is now.
Even before it though, replacing it twice did nothing.
So, the OP's combo would have never worked.
untyped bonuses stack with other untyped bonuses unless otherwise stated in the text of both abilities that are attempted to stack.both bonuses are untyped and come from different sources, even if they are from dexterity.That is where they confusion arises. According to the FAQ, dexterity is considered the source of both bonuses, and since they are both untyped, they don't stack.
That's what the FAQ changes. Some untyped bonuses don't stack anymore, even if neither has a statement saying that they won't stack.
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The faq makes untyped ability scores a bonus type. You can't have untyped ability score bonus twice. However, you can have a Untyped bonus to AC equal to your CHA bonus, and an Armor bonus to AC equal to your CHA bonus.
It is still a rule that come entirely from the FAQ, and not from any other rules source.