I am not an expert on this, but here is my take. Let's start by just quoting the polymorph rules in full.
Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.
In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.
If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell. (see Table: Ability Adjustments from Size Changes)
And then let's quote Polymorph Any Object in full for good measure:
POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT
School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 8
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (mercury, gum arabic, and smoke)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level
Duration see text
Saving Throw Fortitude negates (object); see text; Spell Resistance yes (object)
This spell functions like greater polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. You can use this spell to transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms—you aren't limited to transforming a living creature into another living form. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its transmuted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines.Changed Subject Is… Increase to Duration Factor*
Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral) +5
Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2
Same size +2
Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.) +2
Same or lower Intelligence +2
*Add all that apply. Look up the total on the next table.Duration Factor Duration Example
0 20 minutes Pebble to human
2 1 hour Marionette to human
4 3 hours Human to marionette
5 12 hours Lizard to manticore
6 2 days Sheep to wool coat
7 1 week Shrew to manticore
9+ Permanent Manticore to shrew
If the target of the spell does not have physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution), this spell grants a base score of 10 to each missing ability score. If the target of the spell does not have mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma), this spell grants a score of 5 to such scores. Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force. A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items aren't affected by this spell.This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures.
This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud.
First point to note: there is no listed mechanic for making the Form of the Dragon spell permanent. If Polymorph Any Object is used to duplicate Greater Polymorph, it duplicates it in all ways, including duration.
I do think you can permanently turn into a dragon, granted the dragon is of your size and no more intelligent. You are of the same kingdom (+5), same size (+2), and equal intelligence (+2), allowing for a permanent duration.
However, you would have no changes to any of your stats, as they are not listed in the Polymorph Any Object spell. You would also have none of the special qualities of a dragon, such as its breath weapon or immunities, besides what is granted to you by being a Dragon Disciple, as those are also not listed in the Polymorph Any Object spell. You would gain its natural attacks, and that's about it. You don't even gain the ability to fly, although you will get that from Dragon Disciple 9.
There would also be significant drawbacks - all your gear would meld into your body, making it impossible for you to switch gear without dispelling the polymorph. You also would not be able to benefit from any other polymorph spell, without dispelling the polymorph.
Someone will probably come in and tell you why I'm wrong, but that is how I'm understanding the polymorph rules.
That would mean that the marionette to human conversion example given in the PAO spell description was cast by a level 60 caster.
It would also mean that whoever transmuted that manticore into a shrew by duplicating the Beast Form spells had infinite levels at the time of casting.
No, there are two options:
1) Use PAO as described in everything but the last sentence2) OR use PAO to duplicate a different spell (assumedly one you didn't have prepared today.)
If you use it to duplicate a different spell, it uses that spell's duration.
The marionette -> human and manticore -> shrew are not being done by duplicating any other spell, they are just straight-up PAO using the durations listed on the chart.
Basically the last sentence is completely independent of the entire rest of the spell, besides the casting time, range, target, and components.
It referencing greater polymorph (and the other spells) is to help with the stat changes for the changes you make. The duration is set by PAO.
Agh I'm sorry, I missed the very first line of PAO - "This spell functions like greater polymorph."
I take back what I said. Yes, it will give you permanent Form of the Dragon I.
So, I would view this less from a 'can you do it' question into a more 'should you do it' question; how much fun are you (and the rest of your group) going to have if you pursue this? I just don't see one of the party members suddenly becoming a dragon as something easily reconciled, unless your character can change form back to humanoid when dealing with other humanoids (in which case, isn't Form of the Dragon enough as is?).
Personally, if I was GMing it I would save this as a 'retirement finale' for the character, making it part of a personal 'final quest' of sorts.
I have to say, for the standard spellcasting rate of 8*15*10 = 1,200 gp, this seems incredibly inexpensive to become a dragon. Of course, you need to actually get access to a 15th-level arcane caster willing to sell his services, but the guidelines say you will be "reasonably assured" to find such a caster in a metropolis.
And the deal is, since he now has dragon blood in him from draconic bloodline he is related to dragons, so he gets that +2 as well.
Permanent duration is something of a judgement call based on what factors apply. Even if you can get the GM to agree that it gets up to the +9 permanent duration it may not be so permanent in the face of Dispel Magics.
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Nothing says you can't commission some barding for yourself. Either that, or hopefully you picked up some levels in that armor-less Barbarian archetype. Either way, it's a pretty cool idea. If I ever play a game where I have access to Absalom, or another metropolis, I'll have to give this a shot as a character.
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is it just me but would polymorf any object only work on some thing that was not alive like armer also if that is true could ent you polymorf any thing in to a drangon it would not be alive so you could harvest is scalls for money or if cast on a sentent weapon you could have a entural dragon fighting with you unless it hates your or some thing
Hi, I'm the GM in question here ;)
I think the bigger question isn't so much whether it CAN work... the question we had was how exactly does a permanent polymorph work in regards to other polymorph spells. Here's the section from above:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
So, if the PC has PAO as permanent duration as a dragon, what exactly does it mean that another polymorph spell takes the place of the old spell? In this case, if she were to cast Alter Self to look human whenever she was around civilization, does that completely dispel the PAO, or does it just suppress the affects of PAO until the duration of Alter Self expires?
My gut said "takes the place" means the first spell is gone. However, if that is true, then anyone can cure Baleful Polymorph with any other polymorph spell, so long as they aren't the one casting it... that didn't seem right though.
If the permanent spell stays suspended until the other spell's duration expires, then that seems to create a whole new rule set about overlapping spells, where the intent of the paragraph above seemed to suggest that polymorph spells do not overlap.
I wil say, I hate the spell Polymorph Any Object and it's permanent duration stipulation. I would much rather the upper llimit be somewhere around a week. But the rules are what they are.
I haven't even bothered to house rule it since it requires at least being 15th level to use, which is usually the time a campaign ends.
Also, while being able to permanently turn into another form sounds nice unless you build your whole character around the prospect there are probably some significant drawbacks along the way.
In this case, if she were to cast Alter Self to look human whenever she was around civilization, does that completely dispel the PAO, or does it just suppress the affects of PAO until the duration of Alter Self expires?
It would completely dispel it. (As boring7 mentions, Baleful Polymorph specifically stipulates you can't assume another form with polymorph.)
Also, keep in mind that any true dragons may not take kindly to a human marauding as one of them.
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Polymorph any object is, essentially, a spell intended to transform and redefine something into something else. Stones gain intelligence and gain a personality of their own, people turn into stones and lose all traces of themselves.
When turning something sentient into another sentient creature, the best way to look at this spell is that everything you were is erased, and a new being that looks as the intented shape takes its place - and, yes, you could polymorph yourself into a dragon- but the dragon is not you - it is another being, with another personality, and probably with another goals not necessarily yours. You have chosen to erase youself and be transformed into a sentient dragon, that will think as dragons of the chosen color think - pillage treasure, kill cattle, eat damsels or maybe something else, but it would be a NPC controlled by the DM until the spell is dispelled.
I have no patience to read all the polymorph spells out there, but the simple intent of Polymorph any Object spell was always the same, and regardless of the way you read it to exploit abusive powerups, this is how it should be handled when not used to duplicate an existing lesser spell.
Spells that transform you and let you keep your memories, your personality (and your levels!) are are what you need to make yourself into another being and keep playing.
Do you realize the discussion you are adding to ended over five years ago?
But since you posted, where do you get the ruling that PAO changes personality/alignment if used to change one sentient into another?