Spiked Sheild Bash Warpriest


Rules Questions


Shield spikes allow the user to make shield bash attacks as one size category larger. Will this allow a Warpriest to use Sacred Weapon as a size larger?
I'm inclined to think no, but would appreciate input.

Grand Lodge

It changes the base damage, to the Sacred Weapon damage.

If the base damage is higher, then you use that.


Spikes up the base damage and that doesn't do anything to the sacred damage. So either increased damage from spike or Sacred Weapon damage.


I wonder if medium size character can equip a large size large shield two handed.


Melkiador wrote:
I wonder if medium size character can equip a large size large shield two handed.

You have to wear a shield to attack with it. There are no rules for wearing inappropriately sized armor so I think you'd be out of luck. Now a large throwing shield could work as long as you don't expect to wear it or get an AC bonus.

Scarab Sages

graystone wrote:
You have to wear a shield to attack with it.

Source? You do not have wear a shield to use it. Not all shields have straps, and most have a handle just like any other weapon.

Center Boss shields are designed to be held and block actively and have no straps. I would have no problem allowing a medium character to use a large one two handed as a weapon.


Imbicatus wrote:
graystone wrote:
You have to wear a shield to attack with it.

Source? You do not have wear a shield to use it. Not all shields have straps, and most have a handle just like any other weapon.

Center Boss shields are designed to be held and block actively and have no straps. I would have no problem allowing a medium character to use a large one two handed as a weapon.

In the rules.

"You strap a heavy steel shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand."
"You strap a light steel shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand."

PRD: Ultimate Equipment. From this, it seems it is assumed that all heavy/light shields have straps you must use. Although to be fair, I guess you could wield one as an improvised weapon without wearing it.


Yeah. Dnd and pathfinder both suffer from not knowing much about realistic shield use. Center grip shields existed throughout history for a reason. Strapped shields are more for cavalry.


Melkiador wrote:
Yeah. Dnd and pathfinder both suffer from not knowing much about realistic shield use. Center grip shields existed throughout history for a reason. Strapped shields are more for cavalry.

I wouldn't say that its a lack of knowledge, there is a limit to how much detail any pen and paper can put into the system. I would guess that the designers decided that an overly accurate depiction of shield use across all types wasn't worth the time or resources.


It's not because of realism, they didn't want people walking around with shields to improve their AC and then drop them as a free action on their turn before they'd start attacking with a two-handed or some other weapon. They made a choice to set in the rules that everybody needs a move action to strap or unstrap a shield. If you wanna change that, fine, as long as the rules are the same for everyone, players and NPCs.

Scarab Sages

If that were the case, why make QuickDraw shields?


I don't think there was any plan past making some simplifications for ease of use. Are all the weights historically accurate? Weapons/armor exactly the same? Nope. But that streamlining saved us from having several different kinds of each item with SLIGHT variations with no real mechanical difference.


Several of the devs have weighed in that they think shield-fighting is silly and don't really care for shields much beyond the iconic strapped-on heavy shield.

Scarab Sages

boring7 wrote:
Several of the devs have weighed in that they think shield-fighting is silly and don't really care for shields much beyond the iconic strapped-on heavy shield.

Then why did they create an archetype that specializes in using shields as a weapon?

I can tell you from personal experience as a SCA heavy fighter that a center grip shield without a strap is more maneuverable, better able to block an attack, and more dangerous as a weapon that a strapped on heater.


Imbicatus wrote:
boring7 wrote:
Several of the devs have weighed in that they think shield-fighting is silly and don't really care for shields much beyond the iconic strapped-on heavy shield.

Then why did they create an archetype that specializes in using shields as a weapon?

I can tell you from personal experience as a SCA heavy fighter that a center grip shield without a strap is more maneuverable, better able to block an attack, and more dangerous as a weapon that a strapped on heater.

The problem is that while this is true, it isn't backed up much in popular media. Hollywood never made a movie with a guy rocking a center grip shield. It would be nice if the devs could watch some real martial arts sometime.


Generally speaking, shield-bearing fighters don't get a lot of play at all. It's all Conan with the two=handing.

Or the agility fighter, but agility fighters got their own, different reason to never get any traction.


Spiked shields do more damage than unspiked shields, but they don't do anything like a size increase. Shields are just more damaging when they are spiked.

What you could do is get the Bashing Enchantment on your spiked shield, an that will make inflict damage as if it were 1 size larger. A +1 Spiked Large Shield of Bashing will do 2d6.


Melkiador wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
boring7 wrote:
Several of the devs have weighed in that they think shield-fighting is silly and don't really care for shields much beyond the iconic strapped-on heavy shield.

Then why did they create an archetype that specializes in using shields as a weapon?

I can tell you from personal experience as a SCA heavy fighter that a center grip shield without a strap is more maneuverable, better able to block an attack, and more dangerous as a weapon that a strapped on heater.

The problem is that while this is true, it isn't backed up much in popular media. Hollywood never made a movie with a guy rocking a center grip shield. It would be nice if the devs could watch some real martial arts sometime.

Heard that! in the Fellowship of the Ring movie, Borimir was the only one to even have a shield. A he got feathered by Uruk-Hai arrows because he left his shield strapped to his backpack.


Quote:

Shield Spikes: These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you (see “spiked shields” on Table: Weapons). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.

An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.


Melkiador wrote:
Quote:

Shield Spikes: These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you (see “spiked shields” on Table: Weapons). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.

An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

Huh, so in the description of shield spikes as armor, it does describe it as being a size increase.

Spiked Shield, Heavy or Light wrote:

Description: You can bash with a spiked shield instead of using it for defense.

Shield Bash Attacks

You can bash an opponent with a shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. Used this way, a shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon.

For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon and treat a light shield as a light weapon.

But the description of the shield as a weapon makes no mention of it at all. Interesting, it seems counter-intuitive that adding a spike to your shield should in any way count as a kind of size modification, but I can't readily dismiss that description of Shield Spikes, either.


It's not a size modification, it just uses the damage die of shield one size larger.

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