| Exguardi |
Happy New Year Paizo people. With a new year comes a new attempt at putting together a character build that has interested me for some time: the Arcane Trickster. There's been a lot of content released since the Arcane Trickster reprised its role in Pathfinder's CRB, and I'm interested to see if it is now possible to build a Trickster that is both fun and powerful.
Basically, I'm going to list in this post the basic building blocks for creating an Arcane Trickster; in the next post I'll look at the options available in more detail; and then I am soliciting advice as to the best way in peoples' opinion to leverage these options, and/or suggestions of additional possibilities. I am completely open to discussing options that require boons (as long as that boon is not a unique boon that is not feasible to acquire).
First off, since Arcane Trickster is a prestige class, we need to look at the requirements for entry:
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Alignment is trivial; the only thing to understand about this requirement is that paladin is not an option, and that any monk levels must be taken before entry into the prestige class.
Skills: Disable Device 4 ranks, Escape Artist 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.
Skill requirements are likewise easy to meet, with Paizo's restructuring of skill distribution compared to 3.5. Even the least-skilled classes can muster enough ranks to fulfill these requirements. Notably, it means that the earliest this class can be entered is level 5, unusual for a prestige class.
Spells: Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 2nd level or higher.
Now we get into the tricky part. The easiest way to fulfill these requirements is three levels in wizard, or four levels in sorcerer or arcanist. However, alternate routes exist; an SLA of Mage Hand and/or a second level arcane spell will fulfill these requirements. There are a couple of traits and feats that can provide Mage Hand as an SLA, and certain races (such as Tieflings and Aasimar) have access to 2nd-level arcane SLAs.
Special: Sneak attack +2d6.
Ouch. Okay, this is a tough one. Previously, this required taking either three levels of rogue or ninja (Vivisectionist Alchemist being illegal in PFS), or a single level and then at some later level taking a level of a prestige class such as Assassin (not PFS legal) to gain that second sneak attack die. Now, with the introduction of the ACG and the Snakebite Striker Brawler it is possible to gain that second sneak attack die very early in a character's career with only two (or less) total non-spellcasting levels.
So, to recap, we can gain entry to Arcane Trickster at level 5. PFS only goes to level 11, so to get maximum usage out of Arcane Trickster we want to get in ASAP. That being said, Arcane Trickster's level breaks for new class features are at 1, 3, 5, and 9. So we're looking at 1, 3, 5, 6, or 7 levels (7 being the maximum possible to achieve in normal play).
| Exguardi |
Now that the basics are out of the way, let's list some Arcane Trickster options in more detail, starting with races and classes to meet the prestige class requirements.
The most efficient build to enter Arcane Trickster as soon as possible with the minimum amount of lost casting progression and base attack bonus is, therefore, Rogue or Ninja 1 / Snakebite Striker Brawler 1 / Wizard or Witch 2. This allows the Trickster to take Magical Knack and lose two levels of casting progression with no caster level loss, and requires a race with a 2nd-level arcane SLA. Alternatively, Nature Fang Druid 4 or Sandman Bard 5 / Snakebite Striker Brawler 1. This route requires a trait spent on gaining Mage Hand as an SLA, and a race that provides a 2nd-level arcane SLA. The upside is that only one level of casting progression is lost. Note that yes, despite the name an Arcane Trickster can advance any casting class, divine, arcane, or even psychic when those classes are officially released.
Now that we've gotten into Arcane Trickster, we have to figure out ways to be as effective as possible. Upon entering Arcane Trickster will we have two sneak attack dice; by level 11 we will probably have five sneak attack dice. Like any rogue, we want to sneak attack more than once a round; also like any rogue, we're going to have accuracy issues.
If we're avoiding melee, flanking isn't an option for generating sneak attack. Therefore we need to be invisible, use stealth, or somehow get our opponent flat-footed in an alternate fashion. Invisibility is not the best option until whatever level we're able to use Greater Invisibility, as it will break after our first attack; and at that point many enemies start becoming able to See Invisibility. If we can find a way to hide in plain sight, such as via Hellcat Stealth or the Shadow Well power of the Shadow Bloodline we could attack with a spell, and then move to reenter stealth. Mistmail would also work, but the enemy will still be able to pinpoint our location by staring at the 5-foot cloud of mist which is less than ideal.
There are a couple of other Arcane Trickster class features to enjoy, such as the ability to sneak attack with a spell when we normally wouldn't qualify for sneak attack, but these are severely limited in uses per day. The one unique ability is Ranged Legerdemain, which allows us to pick locks and pockets from 30 feet away; depending on the route we take to Trickster it might be difficult to be sufficiently good at these skills to absorb the +5 to the skill DC.
So, I think that's about everything I have together thus far regarding the Arcane Trickster. Almost a mini-guide now that I've written everything out; but I'm still unsure as to the best way to weld all of these options together to make the best Trickster possible.
So, please, share your thoughts and help me out with this New Years character build!
| Scott Wilhelm |
I never found a Level 2 SLA for Aasimar, but I did for Tiefling, which is why I squeezed in 2 Tiefling Characters before the deadline. I wish I'd done that for an Aasimar, too, because I was just thinking it'd be cool to have a character take 1 level in Fighter, 1 in Wizard, 4 in Eldritch Knight followed by Arcane Archer.
You mentioned Snakebite Striker to me before: my compliments.
In PFS, I think you have to take your 3 levels in Wizard or 4 levels in Sorcerer to qualify for Arcane Trickster. To max out the hit points, I recommend your first level be in Snakebite Striker followed by 3 levels in Wizard, and your 5th level be in Ninja. Then levels 6-12 be all Arcane Trickster.
The reason--seems to me--to stick with 3 levels in Ninja is so you can do the Ninja Vanishing Trick, to keep Vanishing as a Swift Action, locking in your Sneak Attack Damage round after round as you snipe your opponents. Plus, if you are using attack-roll-spells like Acid Splash, your attack roll will be now against your victims' Flatfooted, Touch AC. Pretty cool. You can Vanish as a Wizard, but not as a Swift Action. But it means sacrificing a caster level: you'd miss out on 4th level spells!
Anyway, we discussed this 2nd option before and you already rejected it. I just wanted to mention it for the other readers.
| Exguardi |
Nature Fang Druid with the Crocodile domain can enter the PrC single classed at level 7th level with a racial SLA. It's late entry, but you have full casting.
Now this is cool! Good stuff, thank you. Being a druid without wild shape is a rather painful proposition of course.
Anyway, we discussed this 2nd option before and you already rejected it. I just wanted to mention it for the other readers.
Yep, thank you for re-adding that on this thread, Vanishing Trick is a great way to sneak attack with spells; I'd just prefer to avoid it due to the extra CL loss. Also worth noting that Vanishing Trick would make it very difficult to proc sneak attack on multiple spells in a round, as it takes a swift action to gain the invisibility (excluding options like Fiery Shuriken). Additionally, to avoid MAD you'd want to be a Sorcerer on a Ninja Arcane Trickster, which further slows casting progression.
| kestral287 |
My thoughts:
- Level 5 entry is... not unusual for a PrC. That's kind of the norm, somewhere around 5 or 6.
- No mention of the Magus? Greensting Slayer 5 is a single-class entry into Trickster.
- Wizard and Witch both grant 2nd level spells at level 3. Ninja 1/Brawler 1/Wizard 2 is not a legal entry point barring a 2nd level SLA. If the SLA is assumed, you should probably note that (and where it's coming from).
| Exguardi |
kestral,
Level 5 entry is... not unusual for a PrC. That's kind of the norm, somewhere around 5 or 6.
I think it's pretty unusual. Most prestige classes are designed so you can qualify for them at 5, and then enter them at 6; this one can be entered AT level 5 using the SLA ruling.
No mention of the Magus? Greensting Slayer 5 is a single-class entry into Trickster.
Greensting Slayer has an ability that can add sneak attack damage on an attack, but it is not Sneak Attack, and would not help qualify for Arcane Trickster as far as I am aware.
Ninja 1/Brawler 1/Wizard 2 is not a legal entry point barring a 2nd level SLA. If the SLA is assumed, you should probably note that (and where it's coming from).
Good point, updated the sentence. Suggestions for other ways to achieve 2nd-level arcane SLAs would be appreciated.
| BretI |
Racial SLAs that qualify:
Angel-Blooded (Angel-kin) Aasimar get Alter Self.
Archon-Blooded Aasimar get Continual Flame.
Azata-Blooded Aasimar get Glitterdust.
Garuta-Blooded Aasimar get See Invisibility.
Peri-Blooded Aasimar get Pyrotechnics.
Tiefling get Darkness.
Svirfneblin get multiple SLAs including non detection, blur, blindness/deafness
| Avoron |
How about this extremely useful document?
Aasimar, Drow, Duergar, Half-Elf, Svirfneblin, and Tiefling can all get early entry.
Humans and Half-Orcs can with Racial Heritage (Drow) and Spider Step.
Technically, anyone can with four levels in Quinggong monk, but that would be pretty stupid.
| Exguardi |
So, for PFS you are essentially limited to Aasimar or Tiefling races, or must delay entry into Arcane Trickster by at least one level. I do have Aasimar and Tiefling reserve character slots, so that's acceptable for my circumstances.
How about suggestions for spells that can take some sort of interesting advantage of Sneak Attack, beyond the mentioned spells (Produce Flame and Fiery Shuriken)?
Then you could later grab Merciless butchery for some fun.
While that feat is very cool, I'm not sure how you would reasonably impart any of those conditions onto enemies as a druid without wild shape. I suppose you still have an Animal Companion and Summon Nature's Ally; do any creatures Stun with any degree of reliability? I know of one dino that can stun, but only on a crit.
| Exguardi |
Merciless Butchery only requires 5d6 sneak attack, Imbicatus.
Nature's Fang Druid 6 / Arcane Trickster 6 would already have five dice of sneak attack at level 12, where they only have 6th level spell casting. Right? One die from level 4, one from level 6, and three from Arcane Trickster.
You could get access to Merciless Butchery before retirement if willing to lose a spellcasting progression level and multiclass Snakebite Striker at level 5.
Greater Thundercloud totally looks like it works, although they have to fail two saves which seems pretty unlikely. Granted, from what I've heard Studied Target does increase your spell DCs... and I have been looking for a worthy student for my Venture Captain Storm Druid.
| Exguardi |
Well, "better" is relative. Full spellcasting is better than sixth-level spellcasting, in a vacuum. And Aggressive Thundercloud has less limitations in terms of what it can affect and the timing on when it can affect creatures compared to those Inquisitor spells.
Say, Stunning Barrier is a wizard spell, too. Rogue 1 / Brawler 1 / Wizard 2 / Arcane Trickster 6 could use Merciless Butchery at level 10 with Stunning Barrier. Bet the enemy would be pretty surprised...
| kestral287 |
Life is hard. Still, I didn't realize Stunning makes you lose your DEX bonus to AC, so that's a neat avenue to sneak attack. If risky since it requires getting hit.
It's not really risky. It's a deterrent and a threat. You're not (or at least, you shouldn't be) depending on Stunning Barrier as your sole or primary source of Sneak Attack. What you're doing when you cast it is saying "If you attack me, I can end you". And then they attack you, hit you, and you Sneak Attack-Full Attack them in the face.
I suppose if you're casting Greater Stunning Barrier then walking into the middle of a gang of ogres saying "Hit me so I can sneak attack you", that's risky, but that's also patently stupid.
| Issac Daneil |
Guys; it actually says 2nd lvl or HIGHER.
So, Dreamspeaker Elves gain Dream as an Arcane SLA (A 6th lvl spell)
My thoughts are therefore taking your Rogue/Ninja 1st, Snakebite 1st, and then choosing a Charisma based spell casting class, probably sorceror, or if you feel like doing the other role, Oracle w/ Two-World Magic. (Or getting the rogue/ninja to 2nd and choosing Rogue Talent, Minor Magic --> Mage Hand)
If you go Sorceror, your basically a sorceror w/ Sneak attack and other stealth trainings, instead of a bloodline.
Bonus points if your Oracle or Sorceror is a Seeker, to gain trapfinding (In case you went NInja for Poison use). Gives you a real well rounded Sneak, with lvl 9 spells.
| Exguardi |
You could simply take stunning fist as a feat.
Too much BAB requirement I think, Imbicatus, to say nothing of managing to hit vs. non-touch AC.
I suppose if you're casting Greater Stunning Barrier then walking into the middle of a gang of ogres saying "Hit me so I can sneak attack you", that's risky, but that's also patently stupid.
Hey, if you have enough arcane spellcasting, you could be riding high in a Magic Jar'd body to absorb the punishment.
Guys; it actually says 2nd lvl or HIGHER.
I... what... huh... you're a wonderful human being, how did I miss that? Most every other prestige class lacks the "or higher" verbiage, I completely overlooked it.
Very cool! Opens up a lot more options for entry, thank you.
Imbicatus
|
Imbicatus wrote:You could simply take stunning fist as a feat.Too much BAB requirement I think, Imbicatus, to say nothing of managing to hit vs. non-touch AC.
BAB 8, so it's manageable. You can also take as a bonus feat with irori's faithful combat style via slayer talents.
The accuracy is an issue, but studied combat helps with that.
| Exguardi |
Here's an extension to our Arcane Trickster investigations: how can we make the maximum number of touch attacks in a round, if we think we can manage a flank or other way to get sneak attack on multiple attacks?
Produce Flame and Frostbite both give a number of charges to expend to attack, although Frostbite loses the capability of targeting touch AC if you want to attack multiple times in a round.
The Sound Striker's Weird Words can produce a large number of touch attacks in a round, but there's endless rules debate about that archetype and it would take forever to get to a level with sufficient sneak attack to be worth using.
Anything else along this line that might be useful?
Imbicatus
|
Chill Touch is also a multi-touch spell.
Another way to maximize sneak attack damage is Carnivalist Rogue 2/Brawler 1. This has the downsize of needing three non-caster levels to qualify, but has the bonus of giving you a familiar who shares your sneak attack damage.
You can flank with your familiar, and you will both gain sneak attack damage. Use beast-bonded witch for you caster class, and you can give it feats as well.
| Exguardi |
This seems like a very cool route, Imbicatus. Is there a way to make use of Pack Flanking properly? That feat seems impossibly strong.
| Exguardi |
I suppose you could go Carnivalist Rogue 2 / Nature Fang Druid 4 / Arcane Trickster 5, which would give you an animal companion that you could blatantly ignore and use to fulfill the prereq for Pack Flanking. Might be a little too circuitous. Carnivalist Rogue 2 / Snakebite Striker Brawler 1 would ignore the INT 13 requirement for Pack Flanking, which is nice.
Carnivalist Rogue 2 / Snakebite Striker 1 / Menhir Savant 1 / Arcane Trickster 7? Alternatively a Sylvan Sorcerer would qualify as having the ability to acquire an animal companion.
| BretI |
Is there a way for Witch to qualify, out of curiosity?
Spell Focus, Transmutation. Varissian Tattoo, Transmutation (aka avaria). This will allow them to use Mage Hand as a SLA trice a day and give them +1 Caster Level with Transmutation spells.
Add any second level arcane spell ability.