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"b/c it isn't very heroic to be evil..."
Why so? I can see why there is no CE characters, but i think LE can be "good" part of pathfinder sotiety.
Why not just make assassins not aligment depended? It`s the only class that is fully banned in pfs, and killing bad guys isn`t so evil.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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wellsmv, I remember the price being closer to $600, but you could be right.
Mr. Oger, neither the Assassin, nor the Red Mantis Assassin prestige class, is legal in PFS. It's not that killing evil people is bad, but assassins are more than that. Take a look at the entrance requirements. Basically, you get paid just to gak people, no questions asked. And that is evil. If you want to play somebody who's just good at killing, there are other options.
What is it about playing the Assassin prestige class that you find attractive? Is it some mechanical benefit, or the flavor of the class? Maybe the new Slayer hybrid class would work for you. And you can spend 4 Prestige Points to have your character join an assassins guild (if you own a copy of the "Pathfinder Society Field Guide").
As an aside, the in-world Pathfinder Society, headquartered in the Grand Lodge of Absalom, has many evil-aligned members, and probably some evil-aligned leaders. The organization itself comes in Neutral. Both Indiana Jones and Belloc would be welcome members. But the real-world Pathfinder Society, headquartered in Mike Brock's office in Washington, has, since its beginning, forbidden players from playing any of those evil Pathfinder agents. It's not so much about heroism as it is about the campaign leadership's experiences in other organized campaigns. There are immature players out there, and some of them are realy disruptive when they're allowed to play evil characters.
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i bid on the boon when it was 30 dollars.. came back a few hours later and it was 400+ and just sorta chuckled and walked away...
this year I gm'd a table on SAT where the payer who won- was using his assassin boon.. Nice guy.. interesting character..fun game
Kudos to him for donating so much to the charity..\
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It`s the only class that is fully banned in pfs
This is certainly not the case. Various options of Summoners, Wizards, Rangers, Barbarians, and even Paladins are also not allowed.
And there are many reasons why any particular thing gets banned. In this case, it's the evil theme of the Assassin as written. Dropping the evil alignment prerequisite doesn't help much.
If another Assassin Prestige Class came along, with a CG alignment requirement, and it specialized in tracking down specifically evil targets and dispatching them quickly and mercifully (like a chaotic version of a Paladin), something like that would probably be allowed, because its feel and theme is not as wholly evil as this one.
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Also, Mr Oger, if you wish to quote people, there's a "Reply" button on the top right of people's comments.
You can further use HTML code (the instructions are just below your comment box) to modify that quote, like sections you'd like to focus on, or .
Helps to know who you're quoting and responding to.
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Also, Mr Oger, if you wish to quote people, there's a "Reply" button on the top right of people's comments.
You can further use HTML code (the instructions are just below your comment box) to modify that quote, like sections you'd like to focus on, or .
Helps to know who you're quoting and responding to.
Yeah, sry, didn`t find it first D:
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Slayer, Rogue, Ninja, Shadowdancer, someone who specializes in poisons, a stealth-focused Hellknight, maybe a Hunter.
There are lots of options.
Hellknight... Who the hell is that? o_o I never saw him anywhere or any references to him.
Slayer - nope. Too low sneak dice
Rogue - sure, it`s the core. But multiclass...
Ninja - just no. I don`t like ninjas
Shadowdancer - cool, but not for this character - too low sneak dice.
Hunter - wut? o_0
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If it's the death attack that you want, slayer can take that at 10th level. Otherwise stop getting hung up on the class titles. Classes are just a package of abilities, if you want to call yourself an assassin go ahead. Any class can put ranks in stealth and be sneaky (and there's traits like bandit that can make it a class skill for you if it isn't). To be an assassin means that you kill people for profit, which could be done with swords or magic or poison or whatever. So figure out what kind of abilities you want your assassin to have, then choose the class(es) that fit the closest.
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If it's the death attack that you want, slayer can take that at 10th level. Otherwise stop getting hung up on the class titles. Classes are just a package of abilities, if you want to call yourself an assassin go ahead. Any class can put ranks in stealth and be sneaky (and there's traits like bandit that can make it a class skill for you if it isn't). To be an assassin means that you kill people for profit, which could be done with swords or magic or poison or whatever. So figure out what kind of abilities you want your assassin to have, then choose the class(es) that fit the closest.
I want a character that will take down targets like mages, archers, other not healthy but with big firepower guys... And assassin is best in it. The other choise i see is straight knife master... But without death attack witch i realy want to use. And Quiet death as capstone.
How about this war priest to god of assassins
You would need to be LN.
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How about this war priest to god of assassins
Too. Small. Sneak dice. I realy want to build a character about dealing sneak attack from stealth.
Oh, if you just want to have a lot of +d6's have you looked at the magus.
The classic is Shocking Grasp with +5d6 electricity damage at level 5. True there is a limit on how often you could do this but if you go Hexcrafter you could also get Curses and witch hexes.
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Oh, if you just want to have a lot of +d6's have you looked at the magus.
The classic is Shocking Grasp with +5d6 electricity damage at level 5. True there is a limit on how often you could do this but if you go Hexcrafter you could also get Curses and witch hexes.
o_o man, i want to have a lot of 1d6/8 from stealth to FIREPOWAHHH glass cannon target as sneaky dude. Not as battlemage.
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How about this war priest to god of assassinsToo. Small. Sneak dice. I realy want to build a character about dealing sneak attack from stealth.
This is hard to do normally, but extra hard in pfs.
1) You cannot go adventuring alone. Your entire party will have to make stealth checks. Since you're not picking your party, you're almost guaranteed to have at least one character in the party with the stealth check of a high school marching band.
2) Scouting ahead far enough that the monsters can't hear sir clanks a lot is a good way to die. You want a three round head start at least for the death attack. Thats a long, long time to solo an encounter.
3) Stealthing is hard. You need cover or concealment, non observed status, and the exact lighting conditions that put something in regular light so you can sneak attack it but inexplicably put you in enough shadow to hide in. Oddly enough creatures don't spend a whole lot of time in lighting conditions that are less than optimal for them. Kobolds may hang out in the dark but humans are going to have some lights on.
4) Stealth relies on good communication/house rules/table variance that is almost impossible to achieve in PFS unless you have the same DM every time. How exactly everyone runs stealth is subject to a HUGE amount of table variation, and the death is in those details. Many dms will insist that they do stealth "by the rules" expect you to know those exact rules, and if you do something outside of those rules will without warning say that you've left stealth.
5) Doors. There are a lot of them. Opening them gets obvious.
6) Everything in golarion but humans and halfings sees in the dark. You think you're creeping through the shadows. To the kobold you look like you're trying to sneak up on the pitchers mound in wriggly field. I don't know how many human rogues I've had to disabuse of the idea that they were going to be sneaking around while holding a torch.
7) Too many abilities just flat our roflcopter stealth. Blindsight, blindsense, detect magic,tremmorsense, scent*, casting daylight... you will run into critters that just flat out go. "AHAH! Get him!" no matter what +s you wrack up on the die.
8) Advanced dungeons and dragons is not the only ADD in many gamers lives. While you are describing what you're doing, working out where you are, what the light is, how you open a door silently, looking up low light vision rolls etc. the rest of the people sitting at the table are gaining ranks in architecture/engineering from the flying butressed dice towers they're building. The rest of the party IS going to get bored and announce "We come down the hall"
9) Even IF you succeed, you've hurt your action economy. You gain one surprise round over the bad guy. The party then has to spend (number of party members) X (number of rounds the party is out) actions just getting to the fight. Its not worth it, and "i double move, done" isn't very fun for everyone else.
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Alright, you want lots of sneak attack, here's a plan for you that doesn't use ninja. (The build has other problems, but lots of sneak attack)
So you start off with 5 levels of Rogue. This gets you 3d6 Sneak Attack. Your key feats are sap adept and sap master. These will both significantly increase your sneak attacks under the appropriate circumstances.
To really maximize your sneak attack you take 1 level of Sleepless Detective at 6, 1 level of Inner Sea Pirate at 7 and 1 level of Master Spy at 8. This gives you 6d6 sneak attack at level 8, (a pure rogue/ninja doesn't get this much sneak attack until 11).
Hitting things is going to suck due to your low BAB but we can fix that with guns! (Just remember you need the gunsmithing feat in PFS to buy guns/ammo, proficiency can be added later, generally attacking touch AC instead of normal is well worth a -4).
So at 8th level you win initiative, you move to within 30ft of the evil yet squishy opposing caster, and you fire with your merciful musket, adding 12d6+12 sneak attack.
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Totally ridiculous plan #2 (that requires a grandfathered aasimar/tiefling or a boon)
Arcane Trickster... So Arcane Trickster can be qualified with an arcane spell from the SLA of certain races, but can advance any spellcasting, not just arcane.
Also, the chasis of Arcane Trickster is especially poor (d6 HD, half BAB).
I present to you the Temple Raider.
Oracle 1
Ninja 3
Arcane Trickster 1
Evangelist X
This will constantly keep you 1 sneak attack die behind a pure rogue but in exchange you get oracle casting at level -4, the totally overpowered misfortune hex, all the evangelist features and the arcane trickster features.
You can even go Waves oracle and take a feat for an extra revelation to see through fog so that you can sit in obscuring mist and attack unaware targets to your heart's content.
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Alright, you want lots of sneak attack, here's a plan for you that doesn't use ninja. (The build has other problems, but lots of sneak attack)
So you start off with 5 levels of Rogue. This gets you 3d6 Sneak Attack. Your key feats are sap adept and sap master. These will both significantly increase your sneak attacks under the appropriate circumstances.
To really maximize your sneak attack you take 1 level of Sleepless Detective at 6, 1 level of Inner Sea Pirate at 7 and 1 level of Master Spy at 8. This gives you 6d6 sneak attack at level 8, (a pure rogue/ninja doesn't get this much sneak attack until 11).
Hitting things is going to suck due to your low BAB but we can fix that with guns! (Just remember you need the gunsmithing feat in PFS to buy guns/ammo, proficiency can be added later, generally attacking touch AC instead of normal is well worth a -4).
So at 8th level you win initiative, you move to within 30ft of the evil yet squishy opposing caster, and you fire with your merciful musket, adding 12d6+12 sneak attack.
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Totally ridiculous plan #2 (that requires a grandfathered aasimar/tiefling or a boon)Arcane Trickster... So Arcane Trickster can be qualified with an arcane spell from the SLA of certain races, but can advance any spellcasting, not just arcane.
Also, the chasis of Arcane Trickster is especially poor (d6 HD, half BAB).
I present to you the Temple Raider.
Oracle 1
Ninja 3
Arcane Trickster 1
Evangelist XThis will constantly keep you 1 sneak attack die behind a pure rogue but in exchange you get oracle casting at level -4, the totally overpowered misfortune hex, all the evangelist features and the arcane trickster features.
You can even go Waves oracle and take a feat for an extra revelation to see through fog so that you can sit in obscuring mist and attack unaware targets to your heart's content.
o_o oh my god, i thought that i`m a pervert, but this multyclassing... I even do not heard of half of this classes. Where they are represented? (Evangelist,
Sleepless Detective, Inner Sea Pirate, Master Spy.)Sap line of feats... I thought about them, but this nonlethal... not a dagger or sword but just a stick... dunno. Not styly.
Casting definitly don`t go to this character type. (i`m more view at how build fits for character, not creating character around bouild.)
How about this.
At 12th it would look like this
5th level rogue(knife master)/ 6th level magus (Black Blade)/ 1st shadow dancer
Your SA with Shocking Grasp would be +3d8 sneak + 5d6 electricity
That is an average of 13.5 + 48 = 61
with the level of shadow dancer you get Hide in Plain Sight.
Is this more what you were looking for?
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Check the PRD, many of them are listed on this very site. Just remember you actually need to own the books you use options from - but the PRD is a great way to see what is worth spending money on.
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Totally ridiculous plan #2 (that requires a grandfathered aasimar/tiefling or a boon)
Arcane Trickster... So Arcane Trickster can be qualified with an arcane spell from the SLA of certain races, but can advance any spellcasting, not just arcane.
Also, the chasis of Arcane Trickster is especially poor (d6 HD, half BAB).
I present to you the Temple Raider.
Oracle 1
Ninja 3
Arcane Trickster 1
Evangelist XThis will constantly keep you 1 sneak attack die behind a pure rogue but in exchange you get oracle casting at level -4, the totally overpowered misfortune hex, all the evangelist features and the arcane trickster features.
You can even go Waves oracle and take a feat for an extra revelation to see through fog so that you can sit in obscuring mist and attack unaware targets to your heart's content.
Worth noting is that this requires you to take the haunted curse with your oracle or to take a ninja trick to give you a rogue talent to get minor magic so you can qualify for the ability to cast mage hand requirement for arcane trickster.
That being said, this build is brilliant. I didn't realize that arcane trickster could advance divine spellcasting!
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While there are lots of ways to negate stealth, there's also ways to get around pretty much every stealth detector. The dampen presence feat allows you to hide from blindsight, negate aroma spell from scent, levitating or flying gets around tremorsense...
And just because the enemy sees your teammates doesn't suddenly pop you out of stealth. Sneaking and scouting is perfectly useful in pfs, but don't expect to be able to dispatch the guards by yourself. Pfs is a team based game, they don't tend to write instances where solo assassination would be feasible.
1st shadow dancer... Hm, that looks good. But as i said early this character do not cast spells :3Wait, 12? Isn`t 11 final level?
Regular scenarios only go up to 11.
The Eyes of the Ten series, sanctioned modules, sanctioned adventure paths, etc can take you clear to 20th level.
-j
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And why is that? We have a player who is cleaving to his concept regardless of mechanical viability. And gaining advice on how to accomplish his character within the limits of the rules.
Meh, his concept seems to revolve around a number of d6s. I'd say that's at least somewhat tied to a mechanical viability. Not that it is terribly viable overall. So I wouldn't call it power gaming either.
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Play a ninja, slayer, inquisitor, alchemist, or investigator. All can provide an assassin feel without being evil or outright banned.
I'd avoid rogue tho...I know there are hardcore rogue lovers but that is all there is defending such a trash class. Math, mechanics, and the base class is a failure. But you can always disregard the truth and suffer for 11 levels with a crappie low tier class that is out powered by NPC classes.
I highly recommend slayer or investigator. Because both classes don't specialize in a set opponite but study the current target and tears into weaknesses that are not visible to everyone else. Plus the skills...skills go alot further in PFS than most groups use.
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Play a ninja, slayer, inquisitor, alchemist, or investigator. All can provide an assassin feel without being evil or outright banned.
I'd avoid rogue tho...I know there are hardcore rogue lovers but that is all there is defending such a trash class. Math, mechanics, and the base class is a failure. But you can always disregard the truth and suffer for 11 levels with a crappie low tier class that is out powered by NPC classes.
I highly recommend slayer or investigator. Because both classes don't specialize in a set opponite but study the current target and tears into weaknesses that are not visible to everyone else. Plus the skills...skills go alot further in PFS than most groups use.
Haters gotta hate...
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Alright, you want lots of sneak attack, here's a plan for you that doesn't use ninja. (The build has other problems, but lots of sneak attack)
So you start off with 5 levels of Rogue. This gets you 3d6 Sneak Attack. Your key feats are sap adept and sap master. These will both significantly increase your sneak attacks under the appropriate circumstances.
To really maximize your sneak attack you take 1 level of Sleepless Detective at 6, 1 level of Inner Sea Pirate at 7 and 1 level of Master Spy at 8. This gives you 6d6 sneak attack at level 8, (a pure rogue/ninja doesn't get this much sneak attack until 11).
Hitting things is going to suck due to your low BAB but we can fix that with guns! (Just remember you need the gunsmithing feat in PFS to buy guns/ammo, proficiency can be added later, generally attacking touch AC instead of normal is well worth a -4).
So at 8th level you win initiative, you move to within 30ft of the evil yet squishy opposing caster, and you fire with your merciful musket, adding 12d6+12 sneak attack.
---
Totally ridiculous plan #2 (that requires a grandfathered aasimar/tiefling or a boon)Arcane Trickster... So Arcane Trickster can be qualified with an arcane spell from the SLA of certain races, but can advance any spellcasting, not just arcane.
Also, the chasis of Arcane Trickster is especially poor (d6 HD, half BAB).
I present to you the Temple Raider.
Oracle 1
Ninja 3
Arcane Trickster 1
Evangelist XThis will constantly keep you 1 sneak attack die behind a pure rogue but in exchange you get oracle casting at level -4, the totally overpowered misfortune hex, all the evangelist features and the arcane trickster features.
You can even go Waves oracle and take a feat for an extra revelation to see through fog so that you can sit in obscuring mist and attack unaware targets to your heart's content.
You made me want to make the master spy/pirate/sleepless detective. I already have the arcane trickster
hmmm
I'll have to work on something I'm thinking of a knife master, maybe a worshipper of Pharasma, yeah with deific obedience. Yeah he's a death bringer of Pharasma he slays undead, evil necromancers, and enemies so they may be judged by his goddess.....
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wellsmv, I remember the price being closer to $600, but you could be right.
Mr. Oger, neither the Assassin, nor the Red Mantis Assassin prestige class, is legal in PFS. It's not that killing evil people is bad, but assassins are more than that. Take a look at the entrance requirements. Basically, you get paid just to gak people, no questions asked. And that is evil. If you want to play somebody who's just good at killing, there are other options.
What is it about playing the Assassin prestige class that you find attractive? Is it some mechanical benefit, or the flavor of the class? Maybe the new Slayer hybrid class would work for you. And you can spend 4 Prestige Points to have your character join an assassins guild (if you own a copy of the "Pathfinder Society Field Guide").
As an aside, the in-world Pathfinder Society, headquartered in the Grand Lodge of Absalom, has many evil-aligned members, and probably some evil-aligned leaders. The organization itself comes in Neutral. Both Indiana Jones and Belloc would be welcome members. But the real-world Pathfinder Society, headquartered in Mike Brock's office in Washington, has, since its beginning, forbidden players from playing any of those evil Pathfinder agents. It's not so much about heroism as it is about the campaign leadership's experiences in other organized campaigns. There are immature players out there, and some of them are realy disruptive when they're allowed to play evil characters.
Sorry to be so cavil, but I just needed to post on this thread for reasons that shall go unsaid. Anyway, all roleplaying requirements are waived for PFS prestige classes. I assume you're talking about the morality of it even being there, though.
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Well, it's conveniently made into a tragic necessity almost every time.
The Pathfinder Society needs a theme song.
Had some Exchange Faction players whose objective was to guarantee the sale of hundreds of people who had been kidnapped into slavery. My Andoran druid failed his sense motive check, went to pursue the main mission.
As for a theme song.
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You may hate ninja but without the use of magic (to get invisibility) the vanish trick plus sneak dice from ninja is IMO your best bet (Ninjas are basically better rogues)
Wayang with alternate racial trait dissolutions child on any sneak attack class may work for you to get your stealth when you absolutely need it (though it does max out at 5 rounds per day).
Slayer- yes their sneak attack is behind rogue or ninja but they are really quite good and versatile.
Really those are the potentially best options for non-casters who rely on sneak attack.
As for other options that can accomplish the same task but without sneak attack I'd put forth Inquisitor, Ranger, Hunter, Magus, and most spell casters. (By no means a comprehensive list, almost any class could do this in theory depends on level of investment)
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So you start off with 5 levels of Rogue. This gets you 3d6 Sneak Attack. Your key feats are sap adept and sap master. These will both significantly increase your sneak attacks under the appropriate circumstances.To really maximize your sneak attack you take 1 level of Sleepless Detective at 6, 1 level of Inner Sea Pirate at 7 and 1 level of Master Spy at 8. This gives you 6d6 sneak attack at level 8, (a pure rogue/ninja doesn't get this much sneak attack until 11)
You made me want to make the master spy/pirate/sleepless detective. I already have the arcane trickster
hmmm...
Don't forget to add a level of Snakebite striker for an additional sneak attack die :)