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Can a character with the hamatulatsu master archetype and enlightened warrior trait be neutral good from the trait or does the archetype overrule the trait?
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Chiming in as the author of that archetype, my first inclination is that the enlightened warrior trait would not override the archetype's narrower alignment requirements. On the other hand, the archetype merely narrows the alignment requirement and doesn't have any stronger language that would make the trait not work.
So flavorwise, I would likely veto the combination for a home game. Mechanically, I suspect the two could work together, but it feels off in the same way that a neutral antipaladin would.
I don't know it would be a tough call while the Hamatulatsu Master says that you have to to LN or LE instead of the normal any L the Enlightened Warrior trait does say you can take levels in Monk while being N or NG and you're taking levels in Monk when you choose the Hamatulatsu Master archetype.
I'd probably allow it.
Flagged as being in wrong forum. This should be in Advice or Rules Questions.
Flagged as being in wrong forum. This should be in Advice or Rules Questions.
I am aware. I flagged it myself. It is only here because fat fingers don't mix well with tiny touch screens.
The trait says that "you may take levels in monk even while maintaining a Neutral or Neutral Good alignment". However, the hamatulatsu archetype requires "Alignment: A hamatulatsu master must be lawful neutral or lawful evil." Since the trait does not say that you can ignore the hamatulatsu master's separate alignment restriction, you can take levels in monk, but not the archetype.
Chiming in as the author of that archetype, {. . .}
So flavorwise, I would likely veto the combination for a home game. Mechanically, I suspect the two could work together, but it feels off in the same way that a neutral antipaladin would.
I agree, but on a related note, what about an initially normal (LE) Hamatulatsu Master becoming N/NG later and becoming Enlightened in the process?
EDIT: Intended Mechanics, in case it isn't clear: Start out as a normal Hamatulatsu Master (LE, or I looked it up and saw that LN is also permitted), gain some levels, then become redeemed and take Additional Traits to get Enlightened Warrior and another Trait that fits thematically with however the redemption occurred.
No. Specific trumps general. The trait says you can take levels of monk in general. Hamatulatsu master is a specific type of monk that requires LE, therefore it trumps monk's general requirement and the trait.
Yes. Specific trumps general. The hamatulatsu master says you need to be Lawful evil to take levels in it. The Enlightened Warrior is a specific effect that lets you take monk levels even if you are Neutral or Neutral Good.
The game designer (currently in charge of the rules) three posts above you just said the opposite.
Yes. Specific trumps general. The hamatulatsu master says you need to be Lawful evil to take levels in it. The Enlightened Warrior is a specific effect that lets you take monk levels even if you are Neutral or Neutral Good.The game designer (currently in charge of the rules) three posts above you just said the opposite.
Caveat: My posts are not official rulings, doubly so when it isn't the Core RPG line.
Caveat: My posts are not official rulings, doubly so when it isn't the Core RPG line.Yes. Specific trumps general. The hamatulatsu master says you need to be Lawful evil to take levels in it. The Enlightened Warrior is a specific effect that lets you take monk levels even if you are Neutral or Neutral Good.The game designer (currently in charge of the rules) three posts above you just said the opposite.
True, but I would consider it strong guidance on the topic short of official FAQ or Errata.
Besides which, the argument boils down to "which is more specific, hamatulatsu master or enlightened warrior?"
To me, it seems rather obvious that hamatulatsu master is more specific because rather than requiring just lawful it requires lawful evil. Enlightened warrior only over rides the normal lawful require to allow neutral or neutral good.
Besides, flavor wise it is an obvious no. A good or neutral character probably wouldn't involve them self with evil aspect required by the associated teachers of the style/archetype.