Can the spell suggestion make someone forget about stuff?

[crazydude]

Hi all,

So my character did something that he wasn't suppose to do. Unfortunately someone saw him do it and my character knew he saw him do it.

In response I made a suggestion spell: 'I suggest you forget what you just saw and never talk about it to anyone.'

Is this a legitimate action or does it overstep the boundaries of the suggestion spell?

[Ughbash]

IMHO it oversteps.

A peson can not just purposefully forget something, suggestion makes them do something they can do.

[RumpinRufus]

You could say, "I suggest you act like you forgot what you just saw", in which case they wouldn't tell anyone about it for hours/level. But, after the duration is up they would still remember it.

There are other spells for erasing memory.

[Haladir]

I would say that you could use the suggestion to compel the subject not to do or say anything about what he just saw, but you'd need the modify memory spell to make the subject actually forget it.

I just combined the two effects in a trap for a dungeon I designed. It's triggered by stepping into the tomb of a lost wizard-king. If you fail your saving throw, you get hit with a suggestion to turn around and walk back out the door, combined with a modify memory that the door had opened into a small closet that had nothing in it.

I'm planning to actually change the map if the PCs trigger it.

[Amrel]

Suggestion allows you to force a creature to take a course of action. That creature will attempt to do that until the end of the duration of the spell or until completion. While your suggestion is fine it is up to the GM to decide whether or not someone can make themselves forget something. I think you would have more luck by suggesting to someone that they should think of, and tell themselves, that said event was extremely traumatic, to the point of never talking about it.

[Claxon]

You can't actually make him forget, but you could as Rufus mentions, ask him to act like he didn't see it happen.

If you actually wanted him to forget it happened you would need to use modify memory to erase the event.

[Oly]

Haladir wrote:

I would say that you could use the suggestion to compel the subject not to do or say anything about what he just saw, but you'd need the modify memory spell to make the subject actually forget it.

I just combined the two effects in a trap for a dungeon I designed. It's triggered by stepping into the tomb of a lost wizard-king. If you fail your saving throw, you get hit with a suggestion to turn around and walk back out the door, combined with a modify memory that the door had opened into a small closet that had nothing in it.

I'm planning to actually change the map if the PCs trigger it.

Modify Memory or Memory Lapse would be the two spells that could make someone forget it. As others have said, the best you can do with Suggestion is to convince the person to tell no one of what happened.

[crazydude]

Ok, thank you all for your response. Unfortunately my character doesn't have any memory spells. So i guess rephrasing it is the best I can do.

[Revel]

Actually, I was going to agree with everyone else at first, but after thinking about it I’m not convinced that making someone forget something would be overstepping, it’s pretty close but it’s not necessarily an unreasonable suggestion. A person can absolutely make themselves forget something, ever heard of a suppressed memory? A better example is hypnotism where the hypnotist tells their “victim” upon awakening you won’t remember any of this and then they don’t. I frequently compare the suggestion spell to being hypnotized but being magical it’s faster and has a better chance of working.

Now with hypnotism it doesn’t always work, many people still remember what happened after “waking” from a suggestive state, and those that don’t usually regain their memory over a period of time, usually within a few hours if not a few minutes of being released from it. Also, it suppressing anything that affected a large span of time in a person’s life, like that they had a brother or sister, would fail, but I could see it temporarily causing them to forget something that just happened.

Naturally when the suggestion spell ended they’d remember again and act accordingly, but I think whether or not it works may be dependent on the GM’s discretion and what exactly you asked them to forget. Personally, as long as it was a recent event “just happened” and not terribly traumatic I think I’d allow it. Again, with the caveat that no matter how you worded it would not be permanent, it’d just last until the spells effect ended, so 1 hour / caster level.

[Dave Justus]

The proper response is to declare this a black op and take out any witnesses.

[Melkiador]

I'd say the person tries to forget the thing for the duration of the spell, but once the spell has ended there would be nothing to keep him from remembering. That's the thing about forgetting something, it can still be remembered.

"Where'd I put my keys? ... oh yeah, they're on the fridge." I totally forgot where my keys were, but then I remembered.

[Dafydd]

"Forget what you saw" seems a fine choice. The subject does not remember what they saw for the duration of the spell. When the spell ends, they can remember, but only if they are asked to remember.

It would need a trigger, like seeing you again, or a memo they wrote for themselves. Something as simple as "what did you do today dear?" might start the boiling water.

[wraithstrike]

No, the spell can not do that, but like the other said. Suggesting they not tell anyone might work.

[Claxon]

Besides, there is little effective difference between forgetting for caster level hours that something happened and not telling anyone for caster level hours that something happened.

[Oly]

Claxon wrote:

Besides, there is little effective difference between forgetting for caster level hours that something happened and not telling anyone for caster level hours that something happened.

The Suggestion leads them to "choose" to do something it's possible for them to do (if they fail the save), believing it's their choice. One can choose not to tell someone about something. While people may repress memories, they can't consciously decide to do so. Maybe the person could be convinced to try to repress the memory, but it will likely be a failed attempt.

[Tycho Zzyx]

What about suggesting that the last 5 minutes or whatever were unremarkable. I can't remember exactly what happened every second of every hour, mostly because I don't remember what isn't exceptional. Then after the spell expires, the memory has already faded because it wasn't special enough to remember. Would that kind of suggestion work?

[Oly]

Tycho Zzyx wrote:

What about suggesting that the last 5 minutes or whatever were unremarkable. I can't remember exactly what happened every second of every hour, mostly because I don't remember what isn't exceptional. Then after the spell expires, the memory has already faded because it wasn't special enough to remember. Would that kind of suggestion work?

Not IMO. It's still something that can't be voluntarily chosen. Suggestion implants an idea to do something that they think came from their own thinking and seems compelling. It can't unmake a memory or even contradict a known fact, such as a "the sky is red" Suggestion.

[Val'bryn2]

Wouldn't work. Suggestion specifically calls out that it compels a subject to follow a course of activity. Given that forgetting something is not an activity, it wouldn't work.