I'm looking to build a special minion of my heavy for a campaign and have them hiding in a small town as the Paladin of a local shrine. Basically a cleric of Asmodeus pretending to be a cleric of a good deity (to be determined later, based on build possibilities). Any suggestions? The back story was simple, what I need is a good build. Considering a level or two of bard to further enhance flexibility of character.
Parts I've worked out.
Cleric of Asmodeus:
Traits: Fiendish Confidence, Liar's Tongue
Race: Human Female
Feats:
The altar remains unconsecrated due to the difficulty of getting a strong enough cleric to cast the proper spells.
Unable to do the Lay on Hands due to the reason for them being sent here... they are atoning for a mistake. They are here to prove themselves to hold proper compassion for the needs of others. Basically their story is that they were so bent on serving Justice on a miscreant they left a fellow servant of the deity to die a slow death. A in the rush of the moment screwed up sort of thing and are now paying for that.
The Truth: Cleric of Asmodeus working as a freelance spy for Neutral and Good aligned clerics who need skulduggery done that they can't trust to their own people for reasons that would be frowned upon by their fellows. In this case, a high level priest of Abadar who needs eyes on the town and needs to remove certain elements that threaten profit margins of church operations.
Suggestion #1: Invest in lead-lined armor, as it blocks Detect Evil.
Suggestion #2: Do not eat the delicious lead lining on your armor.
Suggestion #1: Invest in lead-lined armor, as it blocks Detect Evil.
Suggestion #2: Do not eat the delicious lead lining on your armor.
Was thinking Ring of Mind Shielding
But it tastes so good!
If you're willing to meet me halfway on the concept, an Infiltrator Inquisitor of Asmodeus would do this perfectly. Detects as Lawful Good, handwaves the lack of Paladin abilities with that redemption seeker cover story, and he can even cast [good] spells to prove himself. Bonuses to Bluff and resistence to lie detection spells. It's all evilgood, man.
EDIT: It all comes online at 1st level, btw. So you can take the build anywhere after that.
You know, something I never considered before in a case like this would be the church asking for you to cast good aligned spells. Evil clerics, or clerics of evil gods cannot cast spells with an alignment opposed to their own or their deities. This means evil clerics or clerics of evil deities cannot cast good aligned spells. Such as protection from evil.
Besides that detect evil will reveal your character at level 1 to be evil. And you need some sort of magic to disguise that. Magic you don't have access to at level 1.
Honestly, now that I've thought of this I don't know why every divine character wouldn't be treated with suspicion unless they can display obviously good powers.
Inquisitor is probably the closest you can come because of their abilities to be undetected by alignment. Or rather to appear as whatever alignment they want.
My biggest sticking point on all of this is that working as a freelance spy for Neutral and Good clerics who don't trust their own people doesn't really sound like a Paladin thing to do. It instead sounds exactly like what an Inquisitor does. As suggested, you should take a level Infiltrator Inquisitor since this type of thing is exactly the purpose of the archetype. Or, skip the Cleric(Paladin) idea and play a straight Infiltrator or Cleric/Infiltrator.
Some things to consider otherwise:
- Faking a Paladin is really hard, unless you stay with faking a fallen Paladin the entire time. Auras, Smite, Lay on Hands, Divine Bond, are all things expected of a typical Paladin.
- A good story for why a Fallen Paladin is acting as a spy. :)
- It will be hard to explain why a Paladin is using any sort of alignment shielding. So, alignment masking is probably a better option.
- Another option to faking Lay on Hands would be to work with the GM on a mechanic (like Sleight of Hand + Bluff checks) when casting Cure spells to make it look like Lay on Hands.
- You are going to want high Bluff checks, for there will be almost constant lying involved.
The backs story is weak, the good clerics wouldn't need the evil cleric because skullduggery could be done by inquisitors of their own faith. If it is too evil for an Inky to do it, then the good aligned clerics would need atonement themselves for even being involved/hiring it out.
Isn't there Paladin Archetypes that lose lay on hands?
Let's roll play this a little:
Im an evil cleric who wants to pose as a good guy for whatever reason.
The local townies should be easy enough to fool, it's not like the common man has a list of things "paladins do"
so they only people who need fooling, are the PCs.
IF I play my role well, WHY would I need to do anything or perform any parlor tricks to prove I am what I am in the first place?
"Hey you dude! you aren't doing 'Paladin' things"
Yea no sorry, paladins don't wander around doing paladin things day in day out.
Besides, "why don't you lay on hands for that person"
"Oh my diety only blesses me with so much divine favor in any given day, and alas I have already used his favor today."
Besides, which PCS would KNOW what lay on hands looks like?
The cleric could have a held charge from a cure wounds spell and then release it.
or activate the spell from a ring.
If there is another paladin in the party that would make things a bit more dicey, but the wizard, barbarian, and rogue would be metagaming if they insisted their charters knew a dang thing about the workings of paladins.
I have a character who is a Holy Guide/Temple Champion.
He doesn't have divine bond, aura of justice, any mercies on his laying of hands.
Does that make him not a Paladin?
aha I found it! an empyreal knight does not have lay on hands:
Celestial Ally (Sp): At 4th level, an empyreal knight can summon a celestial ally as a full-round action. This functions as summon monster I, except it can only be used to summon celestial creatures, archons, and angels. At 6th level, this improves to summon monster II, increasing by one spell level for every two levels thereafter, to a maximum of summon monster IX at 20th level. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the empyreal knight's Charisma modifier (minimum 1), but only one ally can be summoned at a time. This ability replaces lay on hands and channel positive energy.
So the character WOULD have a legitimate reason for why she can't lay on hands, and it's completely feasible as why she wouldn't summon angels…. "I do not use my gods favors as parlor tricks to amuse every traveler, If you do not appreciate our hospitality here, you are free to leave"
Done and done.
edit** you know, also, the character could just be masquerading as a low level paladin…. "I don't have that ability yet"
I think some people are missing the topic's premise here. This guy showed up at this temple/church one day and told them he was a fallen Paladin. Not a complete fall, he can still cast some spells, but he can't smite or lay on hands or anything. He worships their god and wishes to atone for it eventually by doing good works here.
He was never actually a Paladin.
To do this requires that he undergo regular alignment detection (Misdirection), has to lie about how he fell (Guileful Lore/Necessary Lies), and probably cast some [Good] spells while working there (Forbidden Lore).
Infiltrator Inquisitor is probably the best at all this.
The backs story is weak, the good clerics wouldn't need the evil cleric because skullduggery could be done by inquisitors of their own faith. If it is too evil for an Inky to do it, then the good aligned clerics would need atonement themselves for even being involved/hiring it out.
Isn't there Paladin Archetypes that lose lay on hands?
Looking at Inquistor of Asmodeus now. Had not thought of that.
Backstory: Hired by a Neutral Cleric, also needs to hide the activities from members of own church. So the good/evil is on an as needed basis. Also, she was recommended by a new adviser who is actually a Hesperian(Accomplice Devil) with levels. There are a lot of politics running behind the scenes, but the purpose is creating as much corruption at high levels as possible.
Fallen Paladin is definitely on at all times, also will be starting at 7th level and will be masquerading as a 3rd level paladin. The idea behind impersonating the Paladin is also to draw attention away from the Neutral Cleric who has made some deals in his younger days that are beginning to come back on him.
The backs story is weak, the good clerics wouldn't need the evil cleric because skullduggery could be done by inquisitors of their own faith. If it is too evil for an Inky to do it, then the good aligned clerics would need atonement themselves for even being involved/hiring it out.
Isn't there Paladin Archetypes that lose lay on hands?
Looking at Inquistor of Asmodeus now. Had not thought of that.
Backstory: Hired by a Neutral Cleric, also needs to hide the activities from members of own church. So the good/evil is on an as needed basis. Also, she was recommended by a new adviser who is actually a Hesperian(Accomplice Devil) with levels. There are a lot of politics running behind the scenes, but the purpose is creating as much corruption at high levels as possible.
Fallen Paladin is definitely on at all times, also will be starting at 7th level and will be masquerading as a 3rd level paladin. The idea behind impersonating the Paladin is also to draw attention away from the Neutral Cleric who has made some deals in his younger days that are beginning to come back on him.
Why wouldn't the Neutral Cleric use an Inquisitor from HIS OWN church?
If you want to put she swanky chick posing as a Paladin, why does she even NEED to be hired by anyone.
She's just an evil chick getting her rocks off convincing the locals she's joan of arc.
any extra stuff you want to hook the PCs on to further the adventure can be in her personal effects, a diary, notes, contracts from others.
I vote for infiltrator inquisitor as well.
Im looking up what her inquisition should be as we speak:
Edit** persistence inquisition. At 6th level that ability could look a lot like laying hands on oneself.
It's also listed as an inquisition for asmodeus
Well, she's there because the Abadar Cleric's past deals with devils are catching up to him. She's presumably there because politics. Evil, evil politics.
She could've also infiltrated the church of Abadar to get the job. Just sayin'.
Abadar is a lawful neutral deity not good; as such he can have lawful evil clerics and inquisitors. There is no reason to go outside the religion for this. Simply use a lawful evil inquisitor of Abadar.
Abadar is a lawful neutral deity not good; as such he can have lawful evil clerics and inquisitors. There is no reason to go outside the religion for this. Simply use a lawful evil inquisitor of Abadar.
This cleric is specifically keeping this from his own church. He specifically made deals with devils, which is why Asmodeus even cares.
The reason is...plot? I'm not entirely clear on why this is such a huge issue. It could be anything from the local Inquisitor was busy to the priest likes the Asmodean better. Yes, it could be an Inquisitor of Abadar. It could also easily be an inquisitor of Asmodeus. And since the big bad sounds like a diabolical force, and is placing the agent to further its plot, then why not?
Let's roll play this a little:
The local townies should be easy enough to fool, it's not like the common man has a list of things "paladins do"
so they only people who need fooling, are the PCs.
Not to spin off into an OT debate or whatever, but I was more thinking he would need to fool the clerics of that faith into believing they were receiving help from a Paladin. In that case, I would completely expect another Cleric, certainly one at such position to be ordering inquisitions, to know what a Paladin is capable of doing.
What I didn't think about was that those encounters would be few and far between, and you are right that only the rest of the party needs convincing, or not depending on the party. If he is hiding it from the party, then I would potentially expect any other clerics and inquisitors to likely know what a paladin can do.
Have you considered damnation feats? You could try to get Basileus as your patron. Mask of virtue is what you want. It is costly but it is great:
You immediately know when someone is attempting to use a spell or special ability to learn your alignment. You learn the name and alignment of the creature using the effect. Additionally, you can choose any alignment as the result returned by the spell or ability.
Not to mention other feats give energy resist, intimidate as swift action, caster level goodies.
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I think I'm legally obligated to leave this here...
You're doing God's work, son.
Um... Have you thought about being an anti-paladin for this, with one level of infiltrator inquisitor to sell the back story?
Hmm
I considered both Anti-Paladin and Blackguard, but neither would have the flexibility of the Infiltrator. For Role-play purposes this build has a LOT of potential and will function quite well for Roll-Play as well. And it saves up encumbrance by not requiring the carrying of a lead sheet.
I also agree that it doesn't make sense that priest of Abadar would go outside there faith. A faithful member of Asmodeus may be interested in what is going on internally, but he isn't being hired by anyone.
He might pose as an Abadarian priest of somesort, to watch over his interests. But frankly this setup doesn't make much since.
I also agree that it doesn't make sense that priest of Abadar would go outside there faith. A faithful member of Asmodeus may be interested in what is going on internally, but he isn't being hired by anyone.
He might pose as an Abadarian priest of somesort, to watch over his interests. But frankly this setup doesn't make much since.
He hired a freelancer, is not aware of her association to Asmodeus. Hiring inside his faith would probably been a trip to a quick defrocking. Lawful Priest did something not very Lawful. However the profit was good.. while it lasted.