Well the one we've been playtesting in our home game took a single level dip in Swashbuckler to gain the Swashbucker finesse ability with a rapier - since finesse is DEX dependant. Combine that with Inspired Strike, and self buffs with alchemist abilities and at least combat is plausible. Though class dipping might not be optimal for what you're shooting for, I feel that Swashbuckler is the most dippable class out there and being DEX dependant falls right in line with a good DEX Investigator.
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
At max with items and +1 inherent bonus to int
Str 20, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16, Cha 16
Stats after extract buffs and mutagen(dex) for range (Diminutive) [Undead anatomy III] {Diminutive skeleton}
Str 16, Dex 30, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16*, Cha 16
*Stable mutagen vest
To hit: +15 BAB + 10 dex + 5 enh + 10 studied combat - 4 DA + 3 size = +39
Damage: +3 str + 1d2 short bow + 5 enh + 8 DA + 10 SC = 27.5
Transformation+UAIII+haste+heroism:
+45/45/40/35/30 for 1d2+32
UAIII+heroism
+41/36/31 for 1d2+28
Generalist Human investigator starting stats 20 point buy:
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
At max with items and +1 inherent bonus to int
Str 20, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16, Cha 16
Stats after extract buffs and mutagen for melee (Large)[Giant Form I]
Str 30, Dex 18, Con 24, Int 28*, Wis 16, Cha 16
*Stable mutagen vest
To hit with buffs: +20 BAB(transformation) + 10 str + 5 enh + 10 studied combat - 6 PA - 1 large = +38
Damage: +15 str + 2d6 spear + 5 enh + 18 PA + 10 SC = 55
So: +38/33/28/23 for 2d6+48
Giant Form I + heroism
+35/30/25 for 2d6+44
Giant Form + transformation + heroism + haste
+41/41/36/31/26 for 2d6+50
What's needed: Feats(deadly aim, power attack, and two others to make studied combat work at range), talents(Mutagen), starting 14 strength, starting 14 dex.
You don't need high dex or strength to excel in combat.
This build has 7 feats and 8 talents unfilled to do whatever you want with them.
This build ends up with 16 skill points per level, assuming favored class bonus does not go into skill points, if so then 17 per level.
Investigators are really strong. You may struggle until mid-levels, depends on your definition of "struggle"
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I'm Human (maybe Aasimar or other) w/ 25 point buy trying this (subject to change)
07 STR .... -4
15 DEX .... 7
14 CON .... 5
20 INT .... 17 +2(Race)
10 WIS .... 0
10 CHA .... 0
I think dual wielding Hand Crossbows is my best bet -- but Really need advice.
Obviously a gross INT is VERY important to me.
Positioning and strategic use of AA's?
Dropping your strength that low for the sake of squeezing out one extra point of intelligence is foolish. A mere 24 pounds of equipment will cause you too suffer a check penalty to several skills and reduce your movement.
I'm Human (maybe Aasimar or other) w/ 25 point buy trying this (subject to change)
07 STR .... -4
15 DEX .... 7
14 CON .... 5
20 INT .... 17 +2(Race)
10 WIS .... 0
10 CHA .... 0I think dual wielding Hand Crossbows is my best bet -- but Really need advice.
Obviously a gross INT is VERY important to me.
I suggest only one hand crossbow, or even using a light crossbow.
Get Weapon focus and the Ranged Study. You will want precise shot very soon. Rapid shot and deadly aim will increase your damage.
Rapid Reload will be needed also.
EDIT: I suggest dropping dex to 14, and increasing str. You can put level up points into INT. You don't need more than 14 dex to absolutely rock in combat.
What are "AA's"?
Sorry, Aid Another. Basicaly roll against an AC10 to make your heavy hitters that much more accurate. It's not amazing, but it's effective.
Can you afford either a brief 2 level dip or to wait until level 9 for solid damage based on Int? If so, 1 level of Unarmed Fighter and 1 level of Monk of Many Styles to get Kirin Path/Strike may be right for you. It also stacks with Focused Shot, so you can do 3xINT bonus damage with a single shot each round.
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I'm Human (maybe Aasimar or other) w/ 25 point buy trying this (subject to change)
07 STR .... -4
15 DEX .... 7
14 CON .... 5
20 INT .... 17 +2(Race)
10 WIS .... 0
10 CHA .... 0I think dual wielding Hand Crossbows is my best bet -- but Really need advice.
Obviously a gross INT is VERY important to me.
Yeah...this is a stat problem, not a class problem. A Fighter or Slayer with those stats would be almost equally useless in combat.
Personal recommendations:
Get the Student of Philosophy trait. This allows you to dump Cha, which is basically useless to you as of 2nd level as an Empiricist with that Trait, then drop Int to 18. Really, Int higher than 16 is a little wasted on most Investigators...but an 18 would be valid for an Empiricist, and still pretty ridiculous by most standards. that'll let you get some very solid physical stats to go with that Int.
But even with Int 20, selling Cha down to 7 should give you the ability to get an attack stat (probably Dex) to 16 and not need to drop anything else below 10.
What are "AA's"?Sorry, Aid Another. Basicaly roll against an AC10 to make your heavy hitters that much more accurate. It's not amazing, but it's effective.
If by "that much more accurate" and "effective" you mean "a +2 to a single attack roll", I guess it qualifies... Most of the time, though, Aid Another is a pretty bad idea. It requires heavy investment to become a decent option.
That said, Investigators are a pretty good class. Between extracts, Studied Strike and Inspiration, they have great tools to be effective combatants.
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If by "that much more accurate" and "effective" you mean "a +2 to a single attack roll", I guess it qualifies... Most of the time, though,Aid Another is a pretty bad idea. It requires heavy investment to become a decent option.
That said, Investigators are a pretty good class. Between extracts, Studied Strike and Inspiration, they have great tools to be effective combatants.
Don't forget Studied Combat. Damn, but I love Studied Combat.
And it is technically a different (and much better) ability than Studied Strike. ;)
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and mutagen, don't forget mutagen!
and half-elf favoured class bonus and inspired weapon quality and combat inspiration, sickening defence and domino effect. A one level dip into Inspired Blade swashbuckler to get Fencer's Grace earlier and easier if you go dex-based is also highly recommended.
I think investigator is a really good combat class once you're past the first few ropey levels. Inspiration is an incredible class feature.
An 8 STR and a 14 DEX -- that's no problem (just figured I could put that 4th Lvl +1 into DEX).
What about Light Crossbow instead of Hand Crossbow?
I was actually suggesting that you drop your Int at 19 and get rid of the Str penalty. The best use of your 4th level ability score point is in your highest ability score. Of course, if carrying capacity is a non-issue in your game, then disregard.
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Thanks for all the help so far guys!
Yeah, consensus indicates I need to have an 18 INT instead of 20 (damn it!); I can do that.
.... Hey, what do you guys think of Focused Shot as my 3rd or 5th Level Feat? It's a Standard Action but I get my INT bonus to damage.
(PFS cancelled tonight so I can play with the PC build.)
with your 25 points you have, i would recommend the following array for a human investigator
Strength 17 (15+2)
Dexterity 14
Constitution 14
Intelligence 16
Wisdom 12
Charisma 7
the "Dexterity" looks good if you either have the precise strike deed or a worthwhile stackable dual wielding bonus, but strength and power attack is less feat intensive and i would play this character 2handing a longspear with a cestus for backup. rapid reload is better spent on martial weapon proficiency (longboW) to use a composite bow, and well, it may not be as powerful as a finesse or 2WF build, but it is less feat intensive and you fight like any other reach martial via strength mutagen, studied combat, power attack and combat reflexes. as well as all the classic martial pseudocaster buffs.
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Thanks for all the help so far guys!
Yeah, consensus indicates I need to have an 18 INT instead of 20 (damn it!); I can do that.
20 Int is theoretically doable...but yeah, 18 is likely better.
... Hey, what do you guys think of Focused Shot as my 3rd or 5th Level Feat? It's a Standard Action but I get my INT bonus to damage.
Not worth it. Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot would both do more for you. As would Ranged Study (though that requires Weapon Focus). And all that's if you want to go ranged (which I actually wouldn't necessarily recommend, melee is a better fit for the investigator IMO).
I agree with ^. I haven't looked too much for what keys off int for investigators, but a skill or two is way worth it to be super awesome in combat with the str score.
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I wouldn't invest anything in Wis on an Empiricist, it's unnecessary and not worth it, and if you want sky-high Int, 18 is viable (though 16 might be better, I admit).
A Str build isn't a bad idea, though. You can get Str and Int both to 16 pre-racial, pretty easily, with points left over for Dex and Con if you set it up right.
The melee Dex-build isn't a bad idea either, though, and may be more fun thematically depending on what you're aiming for.
Hmmm If I was doing a Human investigator 25 point buy, but with an int/range focus.
8 str, 14 dex, 14 con, 20 int, 10 wis, 10 cha
Chosen weapon: Light Crossbow
Feats:
1. Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
3. Weapon Focus(crossbow)
5. Ranged Study
7. Deadly Aim
9. Rapid Reload
11. Rapid Fire
13. **
15. Improved Precise Shot [Note: You will need a +6 dex item]
16. **
17. **
19. **
Talents:
3: Alchemist Discovery(mutagen)
5: Quick Study
7: Amazing Inspiration
9: Combat Inspiration
11: Underworld Inspiration
13: Tenacious Inspiration
15: Expanded Inspiration
17: Inspirational Expertise
19: Greater Combat Inspiration
** spoiler omitted **
Investigators are really strong. You may struggle until mid-levels, depends on your definition of "struggle"Your "20 point buy" is actually 25 points.
14 - 5 points
14 - 5 points
14 - 5 points
16 - 10 points
10 - 0 points
10 - 0 points
Includes the racial +2 to int. Hence a Human with 20 point buy.