i mean i heard that in the new book(i dont have it yet) there is a feat that allows to use slashing and piercing weapon to deal damage based on dex instead of str, is ther somethig similar for unarmed strikes?
or every unarmed combatatnt in golarion needs brawn in order to put some dents on an enemy
i mean i heard that in the new book(i dont have it yet) there is a feat that allows to use slashing and piercing weapon to deal damage based on dex instead of str, is ther somethig similar for unarmed strikes? or do every unarmed combatatnt in golarion needs brawn in order to put some dents on an enemy?
You can use that exact Feat if you have any of the following: Hamatulatsu, Snake Style, Boar Style, or Tiger Style.
Snake style for piercing unarmed strikes.
Slashing Grace for Dex to damage.
It's a little feat intensive but doable.
Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Agile enchantment is the obvious way, so it's been possible for a while.
Alternately, a worshipper of the booze-god whose favored weapon is the rapier can go Sacred Fist (Or Cleric 1/Monk X), drop the feats for proficiency, Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, Fencing Grace, and Crusader's Flurry, and do it that way.
Replace the rapier with a dueling sword, find an appropriate god, and you can use Fencing Grace instead.
i was already aware of the agile Amulet of Mighty Fists but im looking for some kind of feat i've always loved the idea of the fast and precise martial artist that needs no more than his fist to wreak havoc
i mean i heard that in the new book(i dont have it yet) there is a feat that allows to use slashing and piercing weapon to deal damage based on dex instead of str, is ther somethig similar for unarmed strikes? or do every unarmed combatatnt in golarion needs brawn in order to put some dents on an enemy?You can use that exact Feat if you have any of the following: Hamatulatsu, Snake Style, Boar Style, or Tiger Style.
Wait I lied. Forgot Slashing Grace is dumb and doesn't work with light weapons.
Do you mean slashing grace?
To get that to work (from my understanding), you need to dip into swashbuckler. This is because slashing grace only works on 1 handed slashing weapons, and only does dex to damage- not to attack rolls.
Meanwhile, swashbuckler lets them finesse light and 1 handed piercing weapons. Slashing grace also has the effect of making the chosen slashing weapon count as piercing, which means you can combine the two to get dex to attack rolls as well.
Of course, in all this multiclassing goodness...there is a complication. Slashing grace only works with weapons you have weapon focus with. And you need to be both proficient in a weapon to get weapon and have +1 BAB. So the obvious choice of monk weapon, the temple sword, would have to wait until level 3 before it could actually...work, basically.
OH wait, there are a couple of 1 handed martial monk weapons if you REALLY dig into the eastern weapon section... 9 ring sword and double chicken saber. So yeah, the only options that work from the get go. You either decide to not even touch your primary weapon for the first few levels, or you pick from the weird stuff.
....and yeah, I am fairly sure that this was meant to be awkward. Looking at other dex to damage feats (dervish dance, fencing grace), they also restrict you to (specific) 1 handed weapons, which restricts common TWF builds (one of the more common kinds of melee dex builds...before swashbuckler came) since those usually need at least 1 light weapon. The other dex to damage option, agile, also seems troublesome since it is a +1 weapon property to do what str builds do naturally, and it is a prohibitive cost for the TWF builds.
Of course, some of those concerns are not big for monks. They can deal with weapon costs since they can flurry with one weapon. Even before slashing grace, you could have gone agile (maybe throw on arcane strike gained from an SLA and then power attack to keep damage up until you can afford the weapon). In an environment where the cost of agile is a 1 time thing,it becomes very competitive with the dex to damage options (thus it becomes a keen vs improved critical thing). This debate will become more apparent as swashbucklers become more common, since they are build for a 1 weapon/1 handed style.
EDIT-oh, you wanted to do this with your fists? Sorry...no, still little to no help there. As it has been said, slashing grace is for 1 handed slashing weapons.
Snake style for piercing unarmed strikes.
Slashing Grace for Dex to damage.
It's a little feat intensive but doable.
Doesn't slashing grace only work for 1 handed slashing weapons?
EDIT-oh, you wanted to do this with your fists? Sorry...no, still little to no help there. As it has been said, slashing grace is for 1 handed slashing weapons.
hope they add something for barehanded monks,brawlers,(fighters?)in some book maybe in a tian xia themed book
EDIT-oh, you wanted to do this with your fists? Sorry...no, still little to no help there. As it has been said, slashing grace is for 1 handed slashing weapons.hope they add something for barehanded monks,brawlers,(fighters?)in some book maybe in a tian xia themed book
As I've said, it seems that the troublesome nature of their dex to damage feats seems intentional.
On the other hand, they did just hand unarmed builds a pounce feat that comes with a feat that does insane things with criticals. So...yeah, precedent for nice unarmed things.
EDIT-oh, you wanted to do this with your fists? Sorry...no, still little to no help there. As it has been said, slashing grace is for 1 handed slashing weapons.hope they add something for barehanded monks,brawlers,(fighters?)in some book maybe in a tian xia themed bookAs I've said, it seems that the troublesome nature of their dex to damage feats seems intentional.
On the other hand, they did just hand unarmed builds a pounce feat that comes with a feat that does insane things with criticals. So...yeah, precedent for nice unarmed things.
i still dont have the latest book could you tell me the name of the feat so i can look it up
actually Tiger Style plus Slashing Grace could work not 100% ideal but kinda
There are a couple of ways to do this, but Slashing Grace is not one of them as it only works with one-handed weapons.
An agile amulet of many fists isn't too bad until you start wanting high enhancement bonuses.
Mythic players can use Mythic Weapon Finesse.
That's about all I know of.
actually Tiger Style plus Slashing Grace could work not 100% ideal but kinda
Nope, unarmed strikes are light weapons, and slashing grace only works on 1 handed weapons (the ones that can't benefit from weapon finesse, the feat that does dex to attack rolls, and also the ones that get -4/-4 if you try to TWF them)
Again, this feat was not meant to be intuitive or very useful. Mostly, it was just something nice for swashbucklers.
EDIT- oh, did you want to know the feats that give unarmed pounce? It is the pummeling style feats. Pummeling style lets you pool all the damage of your attacks into 1 full round attack (so you only have to deal with DR 1 time, rather than 7 times), and then a later feat, pummeling charge, lets you use pummeling style after a charge. There is also pummeling bully, which adds in a free trip attempt during all this since you hit the other guy so hard that you knocked the other guy flat on the ground.
actually Tiger Style plus Slashing Grace could work not 100% ideal but kindaNope, unarmed strikes are light weapons, and slashing grace only works on 1 handed weapons (the ones that can't benefit from weapon finesse, the feat that does dex to attack rolls, and also the ones that get -4/-4 if you try to TWF them)
Again, this feat was not meant to be intuitive or very useful. Mostly, it was just something nice for swashbucklers.
EDIT- oh, did you want to know the feats that give unarmed pounce? It is the pummeling style feats. Pummeling style lets you pool all the damage of your attacks into 1 full round attack (so you only have to deal with DR 1 time, rather than 7 times), and then a later feat, pummeling charge, lets you use pummeling style after a charge. There is also pummeling bully, which adds in a free trip attempt during all this since you hit the other guy so hard that you knocked the other guy flat on the ground.
well back to square 1
and tnx btw
Is pummeling style itself still good though? Cause that feat steals DR's lunch money and gives it a wedgy.
DR/20 looks like DR/3 when you divide it across 7 attacks It is likely the reason why pummeling style was banned- it comes just shortly after druids can pounce with their wildshape, but it avoids all the problems found when you are not using manufactured weapons (DR, and you can suddenly use greater magic fang/weapon for enhancements since you don't care about DR anymore).
Well, that and the crazy thing where any critical threat makes the whole full attack threaten... and then confirm using your highest BAB. So it is all a bet on the likelihood you WON'T crit over your whole full attack.
Oh, and Biztak- the important stuff from the Advanced Class Guide has already been released on Paizo's Pathfinder Reference Document. That is all under Open Game License, so it is not a problem (unless I have some massive misunderstanding somewhere)
Pummeling Style itself is pretty awesome, even Bully. Also, keep in mind its only the attacks that actually hit that matter for the crit. I've already had to correct a few players and GM's about that who erroneously thought that a single crit meant every attack hit and crit.
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There are a couple of ways to do this, but Slashing Grace is not one of them as it only works with one-handed weapons.
An agile amulet of many fists isn't too bad until you start wanting high enhancement bonuses.
Mythic players can use Mythic Weapon Finesse.That's about all I know of.
Don't have time to think this through, but could you use Slashing Grace with a Slashing-type Unarmed Attack from Boar or Tiger Style?
Don't have time to think this through, but could you use Slashing Grace with a Slashing-type Unarmed Attack from Boar or Tiger Style?There are a couple of ways to do this, but Slashing Grace is not one of them as it only works with one-handed weapons.
An agile amulet of many fists isn't too bad until you start wanting high enhancement bonuses.
Mythic players can use Mythic Weapon Finesse.That's about all I know of.
Third thread and third time I am saying this- slashing grace only works on 1 handed slashing weapons. Unarmed strikes are light weapons.
It appears that it is intentionally made to be hard to use. All of the dex to damage options appear to be that way (Well other than mythic....but that is mythic). Feats like dervish dance and fencing grace also requiring (specific) 1 handed weapons. Even agile can be hard to use with common dex styles (since it is a weapon property, which means the cost of the weapons are doubled for TWF and AoMF)
I mean, I guess slashing grace TWF build could work with sawtoothed sabers (still need a swash buckler dip for dex to attack; only a dip, since swash buckler has some of its key features as rather anti-TWF). But that is a feat tax on top of weapon focus and slashing grace, and again this is for a TWF build. But that is not the point of this thread, no?
Er, no. There is only one attack, and the entire attack is a critical hit.
Er, no. There is only one attack, and the entire attack is a critical hit.
I wanted to refute that too, but held back because I think what he meant was that if you have 7 attacks, and the only the 1st hits and the 7th hits by critting, and the rest end up rolling natural 1's, then you only get 2 attacks worth of crits. The 2nd through 6th do not retroactively hit just because of the 7th hit critting.
Essentially, you crit with the damage that the hit from pummeling style ends up doing, rather than the potential damage from all the the hits in your full attack.
Also, there is a theoretical situation if you have improved critical: With normal unarmed strikes, they only crit on a natural 20, which is both an auto hit and a critical threat. So it doesn't matter if it is your last iterative, it still causes the whole crit clause. But with improved critical, you do 19-20/x2, and if you roll a 19, and that wouldn't hit, then it is not a critical threat. In that case, improved critical doesn't help your last iterative at all really (it makes hits 1-4 rather sweet though).
Where do the rules back up this idea?
Where do the rules back up this idea?
Which one, I touched on a lot of complicated things, and I did not explain them well.
For the 'not hitting on a 19' thing for expanded crit range, you just have to look at the CRB
Increased Threat Range
Sometimes your threat range is greater than 20. That is, you can score a threat on a lower number. In such cases, a roll of lower than 20 is not an automatic hit. Any attack roll that doesn't result in a hit is not a threat.
So for pummeling style, if your last iterative rolls a 19, and you needed a 20 to actually hit (lets not assume you needed the autohit), then it is not a critical threat since it didn't hit, even though you rolled in your crit range. And if it isn't a critical threat, then it doesn't make the whole pummeling full attack a critical threat.
If it is about the 'missing most of your attacks in the pummel leads to a sucky critical' bit... that I am less sure over. Consult someone who is...better. Just better.
Where do the rules back up this idea?
The part in Pummeling Style where it tells you to make a number of dice rolls equal to your iteratives, at their sequential bonuses, count how many actually hit, then roll the damage for each of them, then add up the damage before applying DR. You know, pretty much the whole Feat. If some miss, they don't get added to the damage. If one crits, the attacks that actually hit crit as well.
Edit: Otherwise, I've been reading it wrong, and robbing myself of a significant amount of damage potential. Which is possible, but I don't think so.
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Pummeling Charge is the unarmed-superpounce. Already banned in PFS.
It's been un-banned again since the most recent Additional Resources update.
Damn. I was hoping I'd missed a FAQ about Pummeling Style that finally settled the matter one way or the other. : (
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The easiest way to get dex to damage on unarmed strikes is to get Weapon finesse and an Amulet Of Mighty Fists. You enchant it with the weapon enchant Agile, and you have dex to damage. The downside is it only exists in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and may not be a valid choice for home games.
If your GM hates monks, or hates Dex to damage for some reason, she may exclude Agile as an option. Any reasonable GM, in my opinion, would allow a specific thing like that especially when it's available for perusal at d20pfsrd.com for free.
Sorry for the necro, but I'm also looking for a better option for dex to dmg on improved unarmed attacks and natural attacks
So far I got
1. Agile amulet of mighty fists @ 16000 gp, acvording to wealth by level 25% on weapons youit would be affordable by level 10 :-(
2. Dip three levels into UC rogue
As I aim for an unarmed dex based pali with aasimar wing attacks both options are not great.
Jas anything come up that I missed?
I just found out that the amulet of mighty fists explicitly doesn't need a +1 to add agile so it's only 4000 gp affordable much earlier.
The original question above still remains.
An Amulet of Mighty Fists doesn't need to have a +1 first. It's still a pain to improve though. It's that or URogue, unless a GM houserules that you can take Slashing Grace with unarmed strikes - though be aware that Slashing Grace no longer works with TWF.
Depending on what exactly you're trying to do, it might be better to not go dex-based, or not go unarmed strikes. A Paladin can always go strength-based TWF or Elven curved blade or whatever. Note that a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes works for Agile at a lower price and without using neck slot; its limitations may not matter depending on build (like if you just need to make two wing strikes Agile at level 10).
Has there been a change to Slashing Grace? It seems it would work with light weapons now.
Slashing Grace (Combat)
You can stab your enemies with your sword or another slashing weapon.
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.
Benefit: Choose one kind of or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.
You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.
Slashing Grace now works with light weapons, but not with TWF or flurry. Two-Weapon Grace restores using it with TWF, but at a penalty.
You can dip 3 levels into Unchained Rogue.