Biped Eidolon: How do hooves / claws on feet actually work?

[Quatar]

I'm looking at the Eidolon page, and noticed something I just can't picture.

I'm allowed to trade out the default claws for hooves. Since bipeds are the only base form that comes with claws, that obviously means biped eidolons with hooves are ok.
Similarly, it says claws can be put on feet (only one pair, but you can do it). It doesn't give a limitation to "only quadrupeds" as other things do, and considering the hooves I'd say bipeds are viable targets for this evolution.

But... how? With a quadruped it's relatively easy to figure out how they use it, pretty much like any animal would. But a biped? It just says "you get 2 hoof attacks".

By RAW nothing seems to stop me from equiping my Eidolon with a huge two-handed weapon in it's hands, taking hooves and get 2 secondary attacks (doesn't matter, would be secondary anyway since I use a sword) and a bite as well, for 4 attacks right at level 1.

Are there any rules I'm missing about Natural Attacks on feet, or how am I to picture this?

[VRMH]

It's probably not the RAW that's prohibiting this, but common sense. After all: how is the Eidolon going to attack with the very hooves it's standing on?

[Emo Duck]

Dropkicks?

[LazarX]

Hooved animals only get attacks with the front hooves, not all four. Your biped doesn't have a spare set of legs to rear back on in order to make hooved attacks.

[Rikkan]

Well the Bipedal deinoychus dinosaur can attack with a bite, foreclaws and talons (claw attacks in the fluff above the statblock) on its feet.

So it is possible I guess.

Side note: the bestiary faq:

Quote:

If you are a bipedal creature (roughly humanoid-shaped, with two arms and two legs), your claws must go on your hands; you can not assign them to any other limb or body part.

If you are a quadruped (or have more than four legs), you can have claws on your feet. If you have claws on all of your feet, normally you can't use all of those claw attacks on your turn unless you have a special ability such as pounce or rake.

Talons are much like claws, but go on a creature's feet, usually a bipedal creature (especially a flying bipedal creature such as a giant eagle or harpy). An ability that grants you claw attacks cannot be used as if they were talon attacks (in other words, you can't "re-skin" the ability's game mechanics so you can use it on a different limb).

But the specific Eidolon description overwrites that I guess.

[shroudb]

you can only do hoove attack with frontal pair of legs.

similary, there aren't "claws" for legs on biped, and even on animals it is only the frontal pair of legs that have them. For back legs those are called talons/rake, which bipeds can't take.

so the only way i can picture a biped going for hooves would be to have some sort of animal, like a cow, standing up, and having hooves on it's "arms" where the claws normally are.

ofc i doubt you can use them for anything else like wielding stuff if you do that.

[KuntaSS]

I don't think not having the ability to stand is an issue, isn't it assumed you take your natural attacks consecutively, as opposed to simultaneously? He could stand on one hoof while he kicks with the other, then switch.

[lemeres]

Yeah, the eidolon rules for claws are a bit confusing. That is because they were written with the idea of quadrupeds in mind.

Now you might say that they could just restrict it to quadrupeds....but a biped could take the limbs (legs) evolution to get 4 legs. While that of course brings up the obvious question of 'why didn't you just go quadruped and get pounce?', it does provide a noticeable benefit when it increases land speed. So it is possible, and as such putting the base form restriction doesn't entirely work there.

Anyway, balance wise- objectively speaking, hooves are worse than claws since they are secondary. So there should not be too much problem there. And it isn't like eidolons can't normally get a ton of non hands natural attacks anyway, so this isn't quite the situation you see with PCs who want to add bites and claws onto their greatsword routine.

[Melkiador]

There is nothing in the rules that say a biped eidolon's claws must be on his hands. Claws on feet is a perfectly valid choice.

Some erroneously believe that the attacks in a full attack action happen simultaneously, but they actually take place over a span of 6 seconds. Attacking with both is a simple as attacking with one while standing on the other and then attack with the other while standing on the first, which could easily be done in 6 seconds.