I've seen this with Critical feats and Master of Opportunity feats. When a Reactive successfully gets triggered, it mirrors back on the attacker as well as hitting the target. I had MoP Stumble slotted just now. Hit a goblin while it was provoking. The MoP Stumble went off and both the Goblin and I were "knocked down." Every other Reactive I have used does the same thing, mirroring the effect right back on me.
Very annoying. I've unslotted my reactive feats and will consider that system defunct until this issue is fixed.
It been like this since Alpha 7 at least.
Goblin Squad Member
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I've seen this with Critical feats and Master of Opportunity feats. When a Reactive successfully gets triggered, it mirrors back on the attacker as well as hitting the target. I had MoP Stumble slotted just now. Hit a goblin while it was provoking. The MoP Stumble went off and both the Goblin and I were "knocked down." Every other Reactive I have used does the same thing, mirroring the effect right back on me.
Very annoying. I've unslotted my reactive feats and will consider that system defunct until this issue is fixed.
It been like this since Alpha 7 at least.
They also whack you if you self buff :D
I cast a level 2 cleric Aid spell on myself yesterday and took something like 100 damage. I must have critted and both the reactives cut in.
I think the real issue behind this is beneficial are not meant to make attack rolls at all. It is a bug.
We bugged this a couple of weeks ago and received word back from Stephen that they would be looking in to it, IIRC.
Also reported was the fact that if the feat has a "if the target has opportunity" debuff, the caster also gets those debuffs.
I got the same, "We will look into it," back when I brought the issue up in the Alpha forums in late Alpha 8 or early Alpha 9.
I've never had an issue with an attack feat applying the debuff against me as well. I've only ever seen this happen when a Reactive feat gets triggered.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the sake of clarity, do you think everyone would be safer running with empty Reactive slots until this is fixed, or does this only apply to a certain set of Reactive feats?
If all Reactive feats can hurt the user, then we should probably include a warning against using them in the fan-made new player guides.
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For the sake of clarity, do you think everyone would be safer running with empty Reactive slots until this is fixed, or does this only apply to a certain set of Reactive feats?
If all Reactive feats can hurt the user, then we should probably include a warning against using them in the fan-made new player guides.
Unequivocally speaking: do not use Reactives until GW reports and players confirm that they are not hurting yourself.
In a 1-on-1 fight, it doesn't matter- the effects balance out between you and them (basically).
If you are fighting a mob, however, or getting ganked in PvP, hitting yourself with a debuff is BAD BAD BAD. Now multiple opponents get to take advantage of your weakened state while you only get to have a slight edge over one of those baddies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the sake of clarity, do you think everyone would be safer running with empty Reactive slots until this is fixed, or does this only apply to a certain set of Reactive feats?
If all Reactive feats can hurt the user, then we should probably include a warning against using them in the fan-made new player guides.
Unequivocally speaking: do not use Reactives until GW reports and players confirm that they are not hurting yourself.
In a 1-on-1 fight, it doesn't matter- the effects balance out between you and them (basically).
If you are fighting a mob, however, or getting ganked in PvP, hitting yourself with a debuff is BAD BAD BAD. Now multiple opponents get to take advantage of your weakened state while you only get to have a slight edge over one of those baddies.
Thank you very much. When I chat with newbies (and anyone who missed this thread) in game, I'll start advising them away from using Reactives until they're fixed. (And I'll un-slot mine.)
*Bump*
This is still a thing.
Slot Reactives at your own peril.
I have escalated this report.
Thanks Ryan!
The critical reactives are fine to slot, I have found. It is the MOOs and others that trigger off of other states that are the culprits.
I've had the issue with all three reactive types, Dazyk, and with every reactive feat I have slotted and tested out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was under the assumption that the problem manifested when targeting yourself (or another player) with a 'Beneficial' ability. The system would then apply the reactive effect if that Target had the prereq state (often: Opportunity, for ex: Master of Opportunity - Stand Still).
If that is the case, the reactives that trigger on 'Critical' hits (like Exhausting Critical) should not be affected, as beneficial abilities do not roll to hit and thus cannot provoke criticals.
Am I wrong?
What about sneak attack? Anyone noticed if when it procs, the attacker also takes damage?
I've tested them. They are bugged too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So look around this and the alpha forum. It would be great to delay a few weeks and get some more features.
Not as great as it would be to delay a few weeks and focus fire on fixing the features and mechanics that are in-game now. Fix the base before you build too high vertically.
Do potions (or consumables) all work yet? Do the tokens all work? Can you read all the tool tips? Is it too hard to get that 1 point of an ability score in most roles (not just adventure)? Is the Company and Settlement system good enough to not cause frustration? How about the auction house?
Are desync issues still happening? I thought that they were fixed. Tonight it has started for me again.
It is alpha. I am cool with these things as long as they are getting worked on before new features that add new problems.
Never leave an enemy (bug or poorly working feature) behind you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If that is the case, the reactives that trigger on 'Critical' hits (like Exhausting Critical) should not be affected,
as beneficial abilitiesdo notshould not (but do) roll to hit
and thuscannotshould not (but do) provoke criticals.There all fixed :D ^^
it is a known bug.
Much obliged :)
I did actually know it was a bug, I just did not realize the extent of it.
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So look around this and the alpha forum. It would be great to delay a few weeks and get some more features.
Not as great as it would be to delay a few weeks and focus fire on fixing the features and mechanics that are in-game now. Fix the base before you build too high vertically.
Do potions (or consumables) all work yet? Do the tokens all work? Can you read all the tool tips? Is it too hard to get that 1 point of an ability score in most roles (not just adventure)? Is the Company and Settlement system good enough to not cause frustration? How about the auction house?
Are desync issues still happening? I thought that they were fixed. Tonight it has started for me again.
It is alpha. I am cool with these things as long as they are getting worked on before new features that add new problems.
Never leave an enemy (bug or poorly working feature) behind you.
I'd be down with a one week delay of EE just to give GW time to do something like this. I suspect much of the little thigns would only take a week of dedicated bug-swatting to fix.
Also, I am proud to say that I was the first PC burned by Alchemists Fire in PFO! :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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So look around this and the alpha forum. It would be great to delay a few weeks and get some more features.
Not as great as it would be to delay a few weeks and focus fire on fixing the features and mechanics that are in-game now. Fix the base before you build too high vertically.
Do potions (or consumables) all work yet? Do the tokens all work? Can you read all the tool tips? Is it too hard to get that 1 point of an ability score in most roles (not just adventure)? Is the Company and Settlement system good enough to not cause frustration? How about the auction house?
Are desync issues still happening? I thought that they were fixed. Tonight it has started for me again.
It is alpha. I am cool with these things as long as they are getting worked on before new features that add new problems.
Never leave an enemy (bug or poorly working feature) behind you.
I'd be down with a one week delay of EE just to give GW time to do something like this. I suspect much of the little thigns would only take a week of dedicated bug-swatting to fix.
Also, I am proud to say that I was the first PC burned by Alchemists Fire in PFO! :)
First that we know of, anyway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sidetrack - I wonder whether it would work to train a character as an Alchemist, max out Power, and fight with only light armor, a Holdout weapon, and alchemical attacks. I guess you'd have to get pretty good with the Holdout (or daggers), because even with lots of Power, the lockout timer on Power expenditure would limit your alchemical attacks per combat. Might be fun to try, though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I tested it this morning, besides something that looks like a graphic glitch. The reactives either didn't fire at all, or didn't affect me.
Is there any way of seeing if a sneak attack actually happens? And what is it the effect of a successful sneak attack?
The glitch I speak of affects the paper doll, when I change feat it looks like they don't stick/change, but when closing and opening it show that it actually did.
Yeah, they actually are slotting, but it just doesn't update visually until after closing/reopening.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reactive feats and secondary attacks are different things.
Reactive feats have their own section on the paper doll, on the left side. They activate automatically whenever their triggering event happens, so they don't appear in the hotkey bar.
Each class has its own reactive feats (and I believe there are some generic ones). The Fighter Reaction feats, for example, are labeled "Master of Opportunity: X", with X being an effect like Stunning or Knockdown. When a Fighter with Master of Opportunity: Knockdown hits a foe who is presenting Opportunity, that enemy gets "knocked down" for a few seconds. (It looks more like flinching. The system doesn't know how to draw people falling down and standing back up yet.)
The system shows you when you could benefit from the extra effects on a secondary attack, but you still have to manually activate the secondary effect. Reactive feats activate automatically, whenever the trigger condition is met.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That was the reason I was asking about Sneak Attcks, because I havent really seen any effects from them...
Are they restricted to just some weapons? Do they cause a lot of damage or just a little?
I think it's going to take one of the Spreadsheet Warriors to fully answer this question.
It's my understanding that Sneak Attack is not limited to particular weapons. Instead, I think it only activates when certain conditions are met, like "Target is Stunned," or "Target is not Targeting You."
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Sneak attack adds +10 base damage when the conditions are met (varies with role feature) it is supposed to also apply all conditions as though the target was flat-footed; this was not working earlier and I have not seen a correction in patch notes.
I believe it works for all weapons, including wands.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That was the reason I was asking about Sneak Attcks, because I havent really seen any effects from them...
Are they restricted to just some weapons? Do they cause a lot of damage or just a little?
I think it's going to take one of the Spreadsheet Warriors to fully answer this question.
It's my understanding that Sneak Attack is not limited to particular weapons. Instead, I think it only activates when certain conditions are met, like "Target is Stunned," or "Target is not Targeting You."
I suspect that is correct. Feats like Cut Throat and Daredevil when slotted give sneak attack on Sneak Attack on Flat-Footed, Sneak Attack on Untargeted, Sneak Attack on Opportunity to Self.
There is nothing I can see that prevents this functioning fine with say Wraiths Cry from a Wizard Staff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sneak attack adds +10 base damage when the conditions are met (varies with role feature) it is supposed to also apply all conditions as though the target was flat-footed; this was not working earlier and I have not seen a correction in patch notes.
I believe it works for all weapons, including wands.
The part that I can't answer is this question: "Is +10 base damage a lot of extra damage or only a little?"
It might be that for a new character with a Tier 1 +0 weapon, attacking an enemy in Tier 1 +0 armor, it's a big increase, but for an experienced character with a Tier 2 +3 weapon, attacking an enemy in Tier 2 +2 armor, it's a minor increase to damage.
The fact that base damage goes through a scaling equation before it turns into displayed damage makes this a tricky question.