HELP - My Rogue is our new HEALER!?!?

[LibraryRPGamer]

Hi Everyone,

I am playing a human rogue in a Oregon Trail-inspired campaign. We just hit level 2 and we do not have a healer. Since the rest of the party are all "dumb fighter" types, the task of healing has fallen onto me.

I usually don't play healers or rogues, so I could really use some advice on how to combine the two.

A few things about the game/character:

Game:
-There is no "open market" in this game. Getting UMD and buying a wand really isn't an option
-Magic (especially arcane) is seen as a crime. Those that are caught casting magic are seen as witches and burned at the stake. Even clerics can be misunderstood as "witches"
-Divine spells are not automatic. A cleric getting off a spell is a "tiny miracle". I'm not sure of the mechanics on this.
-We have not yet seen a magic item. We are all still using our starting gear. This is a survival game and equipment is hard to find.
-Game started CRB only (see terrible feat selection below) but now anything in the SRD is open.
-Cannot make changes to my rogue. Can only add to what already exists.

Rogue:
-Chaotic Neutral. Background = NY newsman on the run, I've been playing him as cowardly, but, manipulative
-STR 11, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 14, WIS 12, CHA 14
-Exotic weapon proficiency (firearms) - free campaign feat, Weapon Finesse, Dodge
-Acrobatics +7, Appraise +6, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Disable Device +6, Handle Animal +3, Knowledge (Local) +6, Perception +5, Profession (Newsman) +5, Sense Motive +5, Stealth +7
-I'm focusing in being a face and skill-guy. Leaving combat for the rest of the party.
-Need to add a bit of healing in the mix, somehow.

My gut tells me to go lore or heavens oracle for the CLW and/or channel. Are there any other/better options?

Thanks for the help!

[Abraham spalding]

alchemist especially a vivisectionist churigeon could be a good option.

troll syptic is non magical and provides some fast healing, healy myrh is another... longer time line option.

basically alchemical items can move you foward with very limited magic and alchemist gives a means of making and extending the availability of these items.

[Aratrok]

Sprint away from the nightmare GM's table at maximum velocity. And don't look back, lest you be turned into a pillar of salt by the horrors behind.

Failing that as an option (perhaps the doors were bolted shut, or he threw bolas at your legs?), taking levels in a class with cure light wounds on its spell list and eventually taking Craft Wand is probably your best hope.

[plaidwandering]

you ask how the GM has altered mechanics to make this ruleset even remotely viable

don't try to bend your character to something the gm can't layout for you

if a single divine spell requires a tiny miracle, why class into it?

there needs to be an alternate recovery system or this whole thing is doomed

[shroudb]

what about alchemy?

is it against the law to be an alchemist (class) or simply have the craft(alchemy) skill?

there are some pretty powerful (for mundane items) alchemical items that you can craft, but need time to craft them, until you get the right feats that is.

how much downtime do you have? are you able p.e. to take a week or two break?

how often do you need healing?
with just the heal skill you can heal up to 5hp/lvl +YOUR wis (+3x target's con if houseruled) for up to 6 targets in just 1 day downtime

for an average lvl2 this would be something like 11 (17 if houseruled) hp/day

[CommandoDude]

plaidwandering wrote:

there needs to be an alternate recovery system or this whole thing is doomed

All characters recover hit points with a night's rest. Take ranks in Heal.

/eyeroll

[Atarlost]

LibraryRPGamer wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I am playing a human rogue in a Oregon Trail-inspired campaign. We just hit level 2 and we do not have a healer. Since the rest of the party are all "dumb fighter" types, the task of healing has fallen onto me.

I usually don't play healers or rogues, so I could really use some advice on how to combine the two.

** spoiler omitted **

My gut tells me to go lore or heavens oracle for the CLW and/or channel. Are there any other/better options?

Thanks for the help!

It is not an Oregon Trail themed campaign unless people are dieing of dysentery left and right. It is therefore most appropriate to have no healer at all.

[shroudb]

LibraryRPGamer wrote:

Wow. Quick responses. Thanks!

The game has been a blast! And the GM is excellent. I'm not wanting to leave the table anytime soon.

Saying that...the GM is wanting me to have an RP reason for the class change. Alchemist isn't in the cards, I'm afraid.

craft (alchemy) and time?

as i said, for so much limited magic/recovery campaign, maybe slow the pace and go the Heal (skill) route that will give up to 11hp at your levels for each day of rest

OOOOOR

go witch, pick up the healing hex, and this spell:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hex-vulnerability

hedge witch could be refluffled to be like a witch doctor or stuff and will give you a few healing spells.

OOOOOOR

go with shaman.

while dying/whining/hallucinating about no healing, a spirit animal comes to you and talks to you. Now you have access to a bit of healing, a bit more at lvl2 shaman

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

Yeah, chirurgeon alchemist sounds like your best bet. That'll get you cure light wounds as an extract, and the ability to share it with your allies. Plus, brew potion as a bonus feat, so you can stockpile some healings.

If you add in the vivisectionist archetype, you'll continue to advance your sneak attack (though bombs may be a better choice, since sneak attack is difficult to get at range and you don't seem to want to mix it up in melee too much).

You should ask your GM about alchemy though, it sounds like they want to jettison magic entirely.

[LibraryRPGamer]

Wow many quick responses.

1 - This is a challenging game, no doubt. But, the GM is very fair. The game is exceptional and I have no wish to change the rules or leave the table.

2 - There is down time - but its all travel time. The GM has made sure that we are all at full health before each combat.

3 - However, we travel on a raft in a river which makes crafting near impossible.

4 - Alchemist is a no go. My character has done nothing to weren't further exploration in Alchemy.

5 - My character has killed an assassin vine and fallen unconscious to a vampire. He has also manipulated several NPCs. Any of those can be used as tie-ins to a second class.

I'm looking for an option that can provide in-combat heals with minimal out-of-combat effort or resources.

[shroudb]

LibraryRPGamer wrote:

Wow many quick responses.

1 - This is a challenging game, no doubt. But, the GM is very fair. The game is exceptional and I have no wish to change the rules or leave the table.

2 - There is down time - but its all travel time. The GM has made sure that we are all at full health before each combat.

3 - However, we travel on a raft in a river which makes crafting near impossible.

4 - Alchemist is a no go. My character has done nothing to weren't further exploration in Alchemy.

5 - My character has killed an assassin vine and fallen unconscious to a vampire. He has also manipulated several NPCs. Any of those can be used as tie-ins to a second class.

I'm looking for an option that can provide in-combat heals with minimal out-of-combat effort or resources.

hedge witch lvl1 or shaman lvl 2

get the healing hex. it is once/day for each party member.
with the witch you gain spontanously changing your spells to cure light wounds but you can't wear armor when casting spells (no problem with the hex though)
with the shaman you can wear up to medium armor but it is a bit delayed, also no spontaneous casting but you have to memorize.

Shaman is DIVINE casting
witch is ARCANE casting

both can be explained as having visions from your patron, whom he sends a familiar/spirit animal to speak to you and gives you access

[Damon Griffin]

Given that "Magic (especially arcane) is seen as a crime. Those that are caught casting magic are seen as witches and burned at the stake. Even clerics can be misunderstood as "witches" " it seems like a spectacularly bad idea to actually take any levels in Witch, but if you go that route, take the Hedge Witch archetype and the Healing patron along with the hex and spell shroudb suggested; in the unlikely event you end up putting multiple levels into Witch those will increase your benefits, adding some cleric-y healing spells as bonus patron spells and allowing you to convert unused prepared spells into cure spells.

Alchemy does seem like the safest option. You don't actually need to take levels in Alchemist to exploit this. Take the Master Alchemist feat; it not only adds +2 to Craft(alchemy), it also allows you to craft alchemical items and poisons at 10x the normal speed, as well as brew multiple doses of poison at a time (two, given your INT bonus.)

Or there's always Paladin, for laying on of hands, if you can believably transition away from Chaotic Neutral.

[lorenlord]

You could always go into Oracle. I've only been playing PF for about 9 months, and I'm currently playing a Life oracle. You could worship Pharasma, she doesnt like undead and also sees over the domain of Fate.Life opens up a lot of "free" known spells that are helpful later on, like Lesser Resto and Neut. Poison. But I don't know how your build is. Maybe taking Cleric levels would be more sensible for your character. Best of luck!

[Lucy_Valentine]

LibraryRPGamer wrote:

I'm looking for an option that can provide in-combat heals with minimal out-of-combat effort or resources.

Erm... carrying a spare stack of character sheets?

You can technically get a healing spell as a rogue - take an extra rogue talent at level 3 (minor magic), then major magic at level 4 for arcane healing. Of course, that's 2/day. And arcane healing in combat is kind of a thing you need to be anticipatory with. And it's evil so it will get you arrested.
You could pick up a level of wizard, sorcerer, or magus, to get the same spell immediately. Magus might well be the best bet because it lets you cast in armour. Of course, none of that solves the problem of it being illegal and evil and your character being burned to death.

Honestly, I'm not sure how you're supposed to survive this setting without significant restful DT between combat encounters.

Maybe you could try bard? The buffing stuff can be non-magically flavoured and might reduce the amount of damage the party takes, and bards can heal which you could try to disguise by applying herbal salves and poultices. Technically it's arcane CLW, so no miracle required but also no sense of intrinsic evil like you'd get with arcane healing. Also keeps your skill points up.

[Chess Pwn]

why are you needing to heal in combat? healing in combat is hard because if the two enemies hit for 1d8+3 each, and you're healing 1d8+1, you can't keep up. And if you're at full HP before every fight you don't need the out of combat healing.

Take something for battle control instead of healing. A tripped or grappled creature can't do damage, and that's better than healing. there's also dirty tricks, aid another, and sundering. All of these can be used to help keep allies alive.

or get a pet, druid, mad dog barbarian, cavalier, hunter, etc. having another pool of HP to spread the damage around can help no one person fall, plus it's another source of damage to kill the enemies faster. And it can be the combat threat that you can't do. and they can do lots of battlefield control option mentioned above too. :D

Because if you can prevent an ally from taking say 22 damage, then you effectively healed them that 22 damage right as they took it.

[Petty Alchemy]

If the GM makes sure you're healed up for each combat, why do you need someone who can heal?

In-combat healing is weak unless you heavily optimize for it (or reach high enough level to cast Heal), neither seem likely in your scenario.

[shroudb]

Damon Griffin wrote:

Given that "Magic (especially arcane) is seen as a crime. Those that are caught casting magic are seen as witches and burned at the stake. Even clerics can be misunderstood as "witches" " it seems like a spectacularly bad idea to actually take any levels in Witch, but if you go that route, take the Hedge Witch archetype and the Healing patron along with the hex and spell shroudb suggested; in the unlikely event you end up putting multiple levels into Witch those will increase your benefits, adding some cleric-y healing spells as bonus patron spells and allowing you to convert unused prepared spells into cure spells.

Alchemy does seem like the safest option. You don't actually need to take levels in Alchemist to exploit this. Take the Master Alchemist feat; it not only adds +2 to Craft(alchemy), it also allows you to craft alchemical items and poisons at 10x the normal speed, as well as brew multiple doses of poison at a time (two, given your INT bonus.)

Or there's always Paladin, for laying on of hands, if you can believably transition away from Chaotic Neutral.

the witch is the EASIEST to survive:

healing hex is (SU)
which means: no somatic, no verbal, no material.
in fact, the only thing he has to do is TOUCH the recipient.

now, when you touch someone and his wounds close is suspicious right? so what we do is:
Bluff, sneak, etc:
bluff your way through it with fresh bandages (let me apply some heal (skill) on you, good don't remove the bandages till tommorrow)
or Sneak your way in the night and touch them to full HP
Even feint in combat! so as they don't realize you touched them while you distracted them, or p.e. accidental touch in the heat of the fray, and etc

2easy ways to remedy this further:
first level look above, and then:

easiest/cheapest way:
pick up extra hex feat. pick up scar.
scar them all in their sleep
you can now, at range, with NONE THE WISER heal them. And they will know nothing!

the second easiest way would be to take 3 levels in witch:
pick up a valet familiar, something easily concelable and that no one will notice like p.e.:
centipede
or spider

now you can deliver touch through it. Let it rest in your pocket. When someone needs healing, your familiar can deliver it, AND RETURN IN THE SAME ROUND!

[LibraryRPGamer]

The only thing that concerns me about the witch is that my hex saves are based off of INT. All of the offensive hexes would probably fail more often than not

[shroudb]

LibraryRPGamer wrote:

The only thing that concerns me about the witch is that my hex saves are based off of INT. All of the offensive hexes would probably fail more often than not

with 1lvl in witch you won't have offensive hexes, just ehaling.

with the second route (3lvls in witch) you can pick up things like evil eye that even on a failed sv throw they still debuff

[Aelryinth]

There's a feat that grants you the ability to heal yourself once a day as a supernatural ability (Godless healing). Doesn't help anyone else, however.

Note that a level of ranger gives you the ability to use CLW wands, but grants no spellcasting until level 4, and is VERY appropriate for what you are trying to do.

==Aelryinth

[shroudb]

Aelryinth wrote:

There's a feat that grants you the ability to heal yourself once a day as a supernatural ability (Godless healing). Doesn't help anyone else, however.

Note that a level of ranger gives you the ability to use CLW wands, but grants no spellcasting until level 4, and is VERY appropriate for what you are trying to do.

==Aelryinth

he doesnt have access to wands

[LibraryRPGamer]

Just looked at the hex list. There are plenty out-of-combat hexes I can take besides healing...tongues, feral speech, disguise, fortune, scar.

Might be the best option...

[Chess Pwn]

I'm still curious as to why you feel you need in combat healing. preventing damage will "heal" a lot more than healing the damage will.

[Larkspire]

You need To Be Obvious..:)
I'd making an old Old school shakey,Bible-thumping faith healer!
Cast out the DEMONS! praise Jesus!
Don't worry ,most Priests are Ex-Rogues anyway ;)

[LibraryRPGamer]

Larkspire wrote:

You need To Be Obvious..:)

I'd making an old Old school shakey,Bible-thumping faith healer!
Cast out the DEMONS! praise Jesus!
Don't worry ,most Priests are Ex-Rogues anyway ;)

One of the NPCs was that and he turned out to be either a vampire or an undead cleric. Either way, we were fighting two vampire-like enemies at once.

[Gwen Smith]

If all magic, even clerics, is seen as evil and witchcraft and likely to get you arrested, is your GM actually surprised that you don't have any casters in your group?

In that setting, it does seem like alchemy is the safest way to go, since alchemical remedies won't detect as magic (although I'm not sure who would have detect magic when all magic is suspect).

I would argue that there doesn't need to be any past justification for why your character decides to learn alchemy. If the party needs healing, they could go to a snake oil salesman/kindly old doctor/whatever for help. Then, your rogue just starts learning from that guy.

If the GM agrees that your party needs some option for healing or other magic, s/he should arrange to make it possible for you. If the GM insists that you can only work with what you've already found, then the GM doesn't think your party needs magic or healing.

[Sevoir lorlock 78]

Inquisitors are not the best healers , but some is better than none . And they would compliment your rouge class well .second only to the investigator.

[Zwordsman]

Uh off hand I might see if your gm would allow rebuild so you could do become the healer kind of thing.

If he did i would become an investigator, and work my way up to ranged study feat so you can add pretty good to hit and damage at range (ranged study only restricts studied strike to 30ft I believe)
Infusion discovery lets you hand out treats. Though I dunno if magic is weird like that in your game or not. but this allows alot of buffs you can pass around and your team mates can use it themselves. I think the ability hand out buffs and heals like candy that uses their turns, is well worth the infusion discovery.

Judging by how your group sounds and how you sound I thin kinvestigator works better than alchemist for ya.
Really an investigator can pretty easily fit in any backstory written for a rogue.

[Rushley son of Halum]

What you want is the alchemist. As has been said, vivisectionist and churogeon make potent healers and can be combined I think.

Vivisectionist also stacks a lot of stuff with rogues, most notably sneak attack. Alchemists also share so many class skills that alchemists make better rogues than rogues sometimes.

Healers kits, a few different healing items, blood block. You can heal more reliably than a cleric in some areas. Ability damage most notably.

I have a friend who plays a healer alchemist in PFS. He's amazingly useful and effective. Even if he does drag a wagon packed with alchemical tools everywhere he goes.